Subject: Re: Vikings and Mushrooms (long & referenced)
From: [email-masked] (Bryan Butler)
Date: 20 May 1993 08:56:37 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.drugs

[ ... ]

excerpted from "The Hallucinogens", by A. Hoffer and H. Osmond, 
Academic, 1967, pp. 443-454, without permission

   l-Tryptophan is one of the essential amino acids.  It is the
only indole amino acid but not the only precursor of indoles, since
substances derived from tyrosine may also be converted into indoles
of another sort.  Tryptophan is the potential precursor of the
indole alkylamines, that is, compounds which include bufotenine,
N,N-dimethyltryptamine, N,N-diethyltryptamine, serotonin, iboga,
and harmala alkaloids, psilocybin, LSD, lysergic acid amide, and
some yohimbe alkaloids.  With the exception of serotonin all these
compounds are hallucinogens and serotonin may be a neurohormone.
All the compounds listed are found in plants and a few in animals in
contrast to the adrenaline matabolite indoles derived from
adrenochrome which occur only in animals, so far as we know.

...

   Cohoba, the Narcotic Snuff of Ancient Haiti

   Safford (1916) reviewed the ancient and recent history of this
narcotic snuff.  There remained little doubt it was prepared from
_Piptadena peregrina_ and contained chemicals which produced
remarkable changes when inhaled or snuffed.

...

Fish _et al_ (1955a,b,1956) and Fish and Horning (1956) showed that
_P. peregrina_ seeds had 5 indoles.  The chief one was bufotenine.
Also present were N,N-dimethyltryptamine, bufotenine oxide, 
N,N-dimethyltryptamine oxide, and an unidentified indole.
   Jensen and Chen (1936) found bufotenidine in Ch'an Su and in the
secretion of _Bufo bufo gargarizans, Bufo fowleri_ and _Bufo
formosus_.  They found bufotenine in _Bufo vulgaris_ and _Bufo
viridis viridis_.
   Wieland _et al_ (1953) extracted bufotenine from the poisonous
mushrooms _Amanita mappa, Amanita muscaria_, and _Amanita
pantherina_.  Bufotenine was first found in the skin of several
toad species and the dried secretion (Ch'an Su) of the Chinese
toad has been known to be biologically active for centuries but
there are no records of toad skin or its extract being used as
hallucinogenic material.  This suggests that there is too little
bufotenine or that other substances which potentiate the effect of
bufotenine are lacking in frog skin.  We do not believe that Man
has not sampled toad skin.  Primitive man has been very adept at
selecting those species of plants and animals which contained
hallucinogenic compounds.

...

   The fly-agaric mushrooms are the only other natural source of
bufotenine.  But they also contain three other main constituents
(Buck, 1961).  Muscarin which is a parasympathomimetic substance
is present.  It acts directly on effector organs, smooth muscle,
and glandular cells.  Atropine prevents most of the effects.  Also
present in some species of _Amanita_ is a substance called
pilzatropin which may be l-hyoscyamine.  dl-hyoscyamine is atropine.
Finally a pilztoxin is present because even after the muscarine
present is prevented from acting by pretreatment with atropine,
there remains a psychological effect.  Narcoticlike intoxication,
convulsions, and death have followed in spite of adequate treatment
with atropine.
   Lewin (1931) described the use of the fly-agaric by the native
tribes of North East Asia in Siberia.  Lewin discussed briefly the
suggestion Berserkers consumed this mushroom to produce their
great rages.  The fly-agaric was in constant demand and there was
a well-established trade between Kamchatka where it did grow to
the Taigonos Peninsula where it did not grow at all.  The Koryaks
paid for them with reindeer and Lewin reported one animal was
sometimes exchanged for one mushroom.
   The Kamchadales and Koryaks consumed from 1 to 3 dried
mushrooms.  They believed the smaller mushrooms with a large
quantity of small warts were more active than the pale red and
less spotted ones.  Among the Koryaks, their women chewed the
dried agaric and rolled the masticated material into small
sausages which were swallowed by the men.  Lewin does not report
whether the women got some of the psychological response.
   The Siberians discovered the active principle was excreted
in the urine and could be passed through the body once more.  As
soon as the Koryak noted his experience was passing, he would
drink his own urine which he had saved for this purpose.  The same
mushrooms could thus give one person several experiences or
several people one experience.  After several passages the urine
no longer was able to produce the desired effect.
   The response to the mushrooms varied from person to person and in
the same person at different times.  The mushrooms varied in potency
and sometimes one mushroom was effective; at other times ineffective.
The first response occurred in 1 to 2 hours beginning with twitching 
and trembling.  Consciousness was maintained and during this induction
phase the subjects were euphoric and contented.  Then the visions came
on.  The subjects spoke to their visionary people and discussed various
matters with them.  They were quite calm but appeared entranced with a 
glassy stare.
   Other subjects became very jolly or sad, jumped about, danced, sang
or gave way to great fright.  Their pupils were enlarged.  Lewin believed
this was responsible for the distortions in size which occurred.  Small
objects appeared much too large.  This "deceptive perception is apt to
influence his action" ... "on the basis of his illusions the conclusion
which he arrives at is very reasonable."
   In large quantities more severe hallucinations and rages occurred.
The initial excitation could become more and more severe leading to
attacks of raving madness.  In some cases motor excitation was dominant.
The eyes became savage, the face bloated and red, the hands trembled
and the individual danced or rushed about until exhausted when he
apparently slept.  But he then experienced more hallucinations.  This
could then be replaced by another spasm of overactivity followed by more
hallucinations and fantasy.
   Ramsbottom (1953) described in more detail the use of these mushrooms
by the Berserkers.  According to him, fly-agaric or bug-agaric were
poisonous but not deadly and did not kill healthy people.  The potency
varied with district.  In some districts of France these mushrooms are
regularly eaten.  S. Odman, in 1784, first suggested that Vikings used
fly-agaric to produce their berserk rages.  Ramsbottom cited 12 authors
who referred to the use of these mushrooms by the Siberian tribes already
mentioned.  The Koryaks believed a person drugged obeyed the wishes of
spirits residing in them.
   Fabing (1956) and Fabing and Hawkins (1956) was convinced the
Berserkers did, indeed, use fly-agaric.  It is a very plausible explanation.
Going berserk occurred as follows.  The Norse took the mushrooms so that
the effect came on during the heat of battle or while at work.  During
the berserk rage they performed deeds which otherwise were impossible.
The rage started with shivering, chattering of the teeth, and a chill.
Their faces became swollen and changed color.  A great rage developed
in which they howled like wild animals and cut down anyone in their
way, friend or foe alike.  Afterward their mind became dulled and
feeble for several days.  In 1123 AD a law was passed making anyone
going berserk liable for several years in jail.  It was not heard of since.
   Fabing quoted Drew who described a modern reaction to _Amanita
muscaria._  A patient ate some of the mushrooms at 10:00 PM.  Two hours
later he developed diarrhea, sweating, vertigo, and salivation.  He fell
asleep but was awake at 2:00 AM disoriented, irrational, and violent.  ON
admission to hospital he was cyanotic, responded to pinpricks but not
to deep pain.  He was disoriented in all three spheres.  Somnolence
alternated with excitement.  He thought he was in hell.  He spoke 
continually and irrationally of religious matters.  A physician was 
misidentified as Christ.  When not in hell he was convinced he was in
Eden.  That evening his mental state cleared and next morning he was
normal.

REFERENCES:

Buck, R. W. (1961). _New Engl. J. Med._, 265:681
Fabing, H. D. (1956). _Am. J. Psychiat._, 113:409
Fabing, H. D., and Hawkins, J. R. (1956). _Science_, 123:886
Fish, M. S., and Horning, E. C. (1956). _J. Nervous Mental Disease_,
   124:33
Fish, M. S., Johnson, N. M., and Horning, E. C. (1955a). _J. Am.
   Chem. Soc._, 77:5892
Fish, M. S., Johnson, N. M., Lawrence, E. P., and Horning, E. C.
   (1955b), _Biochim. Biophys. Acta_, 18:564
Fish, M. S., Johnson, N. M., and Horning, E. C. (1956). _J. Am.
   Chem. Soc._, 78:3668
Jensen, H., and Chen, K. K. (1936). _J. Biol. Chem._, 116:87
Lewin, L. (1931). "Phantastica: Narcotic and Stimulating Drugs:
   Their Use and Abuse."  Kegan Paul, London.
Ramsbottom, J. (1953). "Mushrooms and Toadstools. A Study of the
   Activities of Fungi."  Collins, London.
Safford, W. E. (1916). _J. Wash. Acad. Sci._, 6:547
Wieland, T., Motzel, W., and Merz, H. (1953). _Ann. Chem._, 581:10

========================================================================

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>     Anyone had any experiences with this? What were the effects?

No personal experience, but I wrote the following at some point:

- Use

These mushrooms are usually eaten (and are said to taste fine), but
people have for some reason tried to smoke them.  This is minimally
effective.  If you want to try, use the skin, which is the most active
portion.  If you boil them, you may have to drink a lot of broth into
which the active principles have leached.  They are said to be of
slightly decreased effectiveness when dried, particularly after more
than a few months.  As smoking presumably pyrolyzes the stuff, don't
dry it at outrageous temperatures, or pan-blacken it.  :-)

The dosage has been variously recommended as "one to four caps", "one
or two mushrooms", and "30 grams of dried caps" for A. muscaria.  A
cap, of course, can vary in size from a half-inch sphere to an
eight-inch platter.  I have no idea.  Start way low.  The red variety
is said to be more potent than the yellow.

For A. pantherina, the one reference I have involves half a cup of
fresh mushroom per person.  This may be high; see "Effects" below.

- Effects

Reports of effects vary widely, as is to be expected from a natural
psychoactive.  The mental effects may become apparent within half an
hour, but more usually take an hour.  The duration seems to be
anywhere from four to ten hours.  Euphoria, ataxia, and sensory
alterations are characteristic, particularly alterations of hearing
and taste.  Visual effects have also been reported, as has nausea.  A. 
muscaria may also produce cholinergic symptoms such as "profuse
salivation and mild perspiration" [Ott].

 A. muscaria anecdotes.

Steven Pollock, J. Psych Drugs Oct-Dec 1975.

	"When we returned to a friend's residence, we boiled six caps
of various dimensions.  Frank consumed two in his mushroom soup and I
ate four (the usual dose being one to four caps).  The taste was
something like chicken.  Curiously, I became nauseated within minutes
but the feeling was fleeting.  Within a half hour I noticed many
peculiar effects.  Audition became enhanced and synesthesias became
prominent with multi-modality overflow.  I began to taste odors, to
small tastes, and even to hear odors and tastes.  Visual disturbances
were almost non-existent, but I noticed frequent recurrent gustatory,
olfactory and auditory flashes.  Tactile sensation became markedly
enhanced.  Occasional moments of nausea occurred during the first two
hourse of the experience, but then the pseudo-delirium settled into a
profound euphoric state of consciousness.  Equilibrium was affected as
by ethyl alcohol throughout the intoxication, but mentation in
contrast remained unimpaired.  After six hours, though still under the
Amanita influence, I retired for a night of sound sleep.  Frank
experienced a state of wellbeing and restfulness without any nausea.
He felt a sharpening of auditory, gustatory, and tactile sensations.
While taking a shower during the evening, Frank seemed to taste
cleanliness and he later slept well.
	"A few days later we again tempted our fate but with dried
Amanitas.  I ate four caps and Frank consumed three.  Each of us
experienced a pleasant intoxication with only mild sensory alterations
including subtle echo patterns.  Frank did feel nauseated, however,
for the first half hour, but the predominant effect afterwards was
induction of euphoria.  A nonintoxicated observer noticed no
distinctive changes in our behavior."

Jonathan Ott, "Studies of Amanita" J. Psych Drugs Jan-Mar 1976.

	"On two occasions in the fall of 1975, I ingested dried caps
of A. muscaria from Washington.  The mushroom caps were eaten as
`Amanita chips,' and were tasty.  On the first occasion, I ingested
the chips along with several grams of Psilocybe cyanescens Wakefield
from Washington which had been estimated to contain at least 1 percent
psilocin dry weight.  The effect experienced therefore have no bearing
on Amanita toxicity.  On the second occasion, I ingested about 30
grams of the dried caps, and after an hour began to experience a very
pleasant opium-like sedation with slight visual phenomena, similar to
those described for A. pantherina intoxication, although of lesser
intensity.  I experienced distinct muscarinic effects, characterized
by profuse salivation and mild perspiration.  Three friends who
ingested the mushrooms with me reported similar effects.  The
muscarinic symptoms were not at all unpleasant.  Either these effect
were due to muscarine in the carpophores (in which case A. muscaria
from Washington must contain a much higher concentration of muscarine
than is reported for European specimens), or they were produced by
some yet-unidentified compound with muscarinic activity.
	"Again, I experienced no nausea or other adverse effects.  The
intoxication was experienced for about five hours, after which I went
to sleep and awoke the next morning with no after-effects.  During the
experience I noticed a rather profound diminution of coordination and
balance, effects similar to advanced stages of ethanol intoxication.
There were, however, no effects of clouding of consciousness or
slurring of speech.  One of the friends who ingested the mushrooms
with me experienced slight nausea, but no other adverse effects were
reported."

 A. pantherina anecdote.
Jonathan Ott again.

	"In the spring of 1975, after completing the above survey, I
collected some early specimens of A. pantherina near Tenino,
Washington.  I sliced and sauteed the mushrooms, and divided them into
six portions, consisting of about one half cup of material each.  The
six portions were ingested by myself and five friends, one of whom
ingested only half of a dose, the remaining half being ingested, along
with a full portion, by another of my friends.  All of us enjoyed the
taste of the mushrooms.
	"After an hour had elapsed, I had concluded that the dosage
level was too low, and had retired to my home to build a fire and
study.  About 90 minutes after ingestion, however, while
hyperventilating into my wood stove in an attempt to start the fire, I
noticed that I was experiencing changes in visual perception.  These
effects became stronger over the next hour or some, and were
characterized by sensing an `alive quality' in inanimate objects, wavy
motion in the visual field like a Van Gogh canvas (no color perception
was associated with the motion, however, as is so commonly encountered
following ingestion of LSD, psilocybin, or mescaline), and mild
distortion of size, distance and depth perception.  Auditory
hallucination were also prominent -- especially the effect, called
`anahata sounds' of yoga, of hearing fine high-pitched sounds like
bells and violin strings.  I experienced only slight impairment of
motor coordination and balance, such as would be produced by a small
amount of ethanol, equivalent to two or three bottles of beer.  In
contrast to the effect of ethanol, however, there was no slurring of
speech or clouding of consciousness.  While I felt as though my
conciousness was somehow removed and distant from the surroundings, I
experienced a sense of great clarity, as I often experience following
ingestion of psilocybin-containing mushrooms.  It seemed to me that
the psychic effect were emanating from the `ajna chakra', the
so-called `third eye' -- a locus above and between the eyes.  I
experienced no muscular spasms, cramps, vomiting, or nausea of any
kind.  The experience was totally pleasurable, and lasted about seven
hours.  I was struck by the unique quality of the effect whereas I
find the psychic effects of LSD, psilocybin-containing mushrooms, and
peyote to be similar, to be, as it were, on a continuum of related
experience, I felt the A. pantherina was distinctly different.
	"Of my five friends, two experienced slight nausea, and only
one felt drowsy.  This person slept for about an hour, and awoke
feeling refreshed.  Two of my friends alleged that they had never been
so high on hallucinogenic drugs before.  One of these friends, the
person who ingested half again as much of the fried mushrooms as I,
experienced a complete dissociative reaction, and was unable to
communicate with the rest of the group for about five hours.  While in
this state, he was periodically attempting to articulate his thoughts,
but was totally incapable of communication.  During this phase of his
intoxication, we were talking about this history of A. muscaria and
urine ingestion in Siberia.  The subject in the dissociated state
later reported the experience of vivid waking dreams which were
related, through bizarre imagery, to the topics of the conversations
we had been conducting around him.  After about five hours of
dissociative experience, the subject began to reestablish contact with
the rest of us and within 90 minutes was fully rational, though shaken
and frightened.  None of us experienced any after-effects."

>       Sean LeBlanc

	 PGP 2 key by finger or e-mail
   Eli   [email-masked]

============================================================================

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Pagan Academic Network) writes:
>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:

> >     Anyone had any experiences with this? What were the effects?

>     Good question I've been wanting to know the same thing I wouldn't mind
>some feedback on Fly Agaric also. 

I would be pretty scared to take these, but since I have this darn
Psychedelics Encyclopedia right here, let me see what it says.  Okay,
for starters, Fly Agaric is the same thing as Amanita muscaria (Pagan's
question left it ambiguous).  There's another one called Panther Caps or
Amanita pantherina that has the same psychoactive compounds - ibotenic
acid, muscimol and (less important) muscazone - but more of them.

Now these guys are somewhat toxic, but the other thing to keep in mind
is that the Amanita genus has the species that cause 95 percent of all
deaths from mushroom poisoning, so you damn well better know what
species you're munching on.  Amanita virosa (Destroying Angel), Amanita
phalloides (Death Cap),... well, I guess the names tell it all.
Apparently you only feel the poison of these bad guys TWO DAYS after you
eat them, by which time stomach pumping is seldom any use.  They look
similar to the "good" Amanitas, so be fucking careful.

One funny thing is that about half the books on mushrooms say Amanita
muscaria is deadly, but R. Gordon Wasson (who wrote "SOMA: Divine
Mushroom of Immortality", arguing that the "soma" of the Rig-Veda was
Amanita muscaria) claims that there's not a single firsthand account of
lethal poisoning by A. muscaria.  Supposedly, if properly dried they are
okay if you start with NO MORE THAN 1/4-1/2 CUP OF CHOPPED OR SAUTEED
MATERIAL.  According to Johnathan Ott, "These mushrooms are powerful.
The effective dose range may be narrow.  If it is exceeded, even by a
small amount, a dissociative experience may result, even a comatose
state or an inability to function.  Of course, there are many who desire
this kind of effect [I love that]; no doubt it would be alarming to
others.  There are many unanswered questions concerning the toxicity of
these mushrooms.  It has been suggested, and there is some evidence to
support this, that the toxicity may vary according to location and
season."  The drying process turns ibotenic acid into muscimol,
multiplying the potency by 5 or 6, and reduces bad side-effects.  

Apparently many people who take it say it's "not all that nice, perhaps
not even psychedelic".  But here's what Ott says: "After oral ingestion,
the full effects will begin in about 90 minutes.  For me these are
characterized by wavy motion in the visual field, an "alive" quality to
inanimate objects, auditory hallucinations and a sense of great mental
stillness and clarity.  The effects are distinctly different from
psilocybin, LSD or mescaline, and may last up to 8 hours.  Side effects
often include nausea, slight loss of balance and coordination, and
drowsiness.  Smoking produces a more rapid effect of shorter duration."

Need I repeat this?  Anyone who wants to mess with these should learn a
lot more about them than the above.

=========================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: [email-masked] (Robert Cain)
Subject: Re: Amanita Muscaria
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 07:52:32 GMT

 ([email-masked]) wrote:
:      Anyone had any experiences with this? What were the effects? Suggestions
: and comments welcome...
:        Sean LeBlanc

Yep, a night in the hospital in the most awful psychic agony I have
ever experienced while they poured ipecac (SP) and charcoal down me
'cause the little bastards refused to let me puke. I was pumped.  I
was then hooked to a heart monitor and had the distinct displeasure of
seeing my heart stop a couple of times.  After one of them and a couple
of firm thumps to my sternum I asked the doctor if I was going to make
it.  He was rather preocupied with saving my life and sorta muttered,
"we don't know."  They would not treat me with anything until the
mushroom was identified which they did by flying it to a poison control
center in Denver, I think it was, by Navy jet from Moffet field.  They
then shot me with something that had me down in 15 minutes after about
six hours of mental horror.  The next morning every damn med student
and intern came by to find out what it was like.  I didn't have good
things to report.  Your mileage may vary.  The view I got of the human
condition and the burried sadness, pain and agony in everyone around
and treating me in the busy emergency facility may have been one very
powerful sort of empathogenic halucination effect but it fucked me up
for a long time.  I have tried nearly every psychoactive even remotely
available and nothing, NOTHING, has had such a negative psychic effect.

Peace,

Bob
-- 
Bob Cain    [email-masked]   408-358-2007

    'The meek shall inherit the earth--the rest of us will move on..'
                                                    Sameer Parekh

               PGP 1.0 or 2.0 public key available on request.

===========================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: [email-masked] (KURT F. SEEFELDT)
Subject: Re: Fly agaric? Help request
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 00:52:21 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Andreas Engstr|m) writes:
>I would be very happy if people could post their experiences with 
>Amanita Muscaria, Fly agaric (Y'know, that red thing with white dots..).

 I was the sober person for a Amanita Muscaria experience with some
friends.  They consumed some fresh mushrooms with peanut butter, as the
taste was horrid. Nothing happened for a while. Then...they all ended
up getting sick (vomitting). The illness was brief but violent and 
unexpected. That passed and the buzz set in. They described it as similar
to a few beers. Nothing special, and certainly not worth the experience.
 They have not done it since and I don't think they will.

 Based on their experience, I would not recommend it. If you do try it, 
be careful.

  - kurt

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: [email-masked] (aankrom)
Subject: Re: Amanita muscaria -experiment
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 01:56:43 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>I come from Finland.
>
>Maybe Amanita muscarias here in Finland are better than
>yours?
>
>* Taavetti *

This is more than likely true. The European variety of A muscaria is 
hallucinogenic/intoxicating while the North American variety will 
only make the eater very ill. If youlive in North America, don't experiment
with A muscaria.

Anthony

-- 
Ich fuehle mich so verlassen...