Subject: Tipping

From: [email-masked] (P. Allen Larsen)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 15:54:01 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>
>Put yourself in their shoes. A long shift in a crowded place with
>plenty of people asking for your attention, being constantly on your
>feet, with a pinch of rude customers here, and perhaps a dash of
>sexual harrassment there. How happy would you be after a day of this,
>knowing you are making $6 an hour? If you think about it, you will
>realize that you should always leave tips, because these people
>deserve it *by default*.

I really hate this argument.  Do you tip the sales clerk when you buy a 
pair of jeans at a shop in a mall?  Do you tip the clerk at a convenience
store or a gas station?

These people work long shifts with people asking for their attention, 
constantly on their feet, dealing with rude and harrassing customers as
well.  Yet many of them make the minimum $6 an hour as well, and they 
rarely receive any tips.  If food servers deserve tips by default, then 
should every other person working in a public service job? 

Who's to say that waiters and waitresses deserve the tip more than the 
corner store clerk who is enjoying the rare evening out?

Al.

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From: Mario Kasapi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:03:28 -0700

A lot of people are missing the point about tipping. Whether you like it
or not our society, and others, have evolved such that the CUSTOMER pays
most of a waiter/waitresses wages. Since most restaurants pay their
servers minimum wage (or very close to it) and most of the servers are
adults (because WE expect mature service), it is virtually impossible for
these people to survive on what their employer pays them alone. So the
fact is, waiters and waitresses (that aren't unionized) could not earn a
decent living here without tips.

This is what I suggest from my experience having worked in the restaurant
business for a number of years. If service is OK or better, tip your
server 15% or better. Only if the service has been VERY bad or the server
was rude should you not leave anything. Most people stay in a restaurant
for about 2 hours. A $7.50 tip (on a $50 food bill for a couple) over two
hours is an extra $3.75 per hour from that table. It's not much for the
customer, but it adds up for the server, and servers don't have that
many tables. A few bad tips in one night adds up (or subtracts) quickly.

Some people are just assholes and won't leave tips no matter how good the
server is (I've seen it happen to excellent servers MANY times), and some
people just forget (I think). Most servers don't live in the lap of
luxury either so by all means if the service is very bad, don't leave a
penny, but just know that they'll feel the pinch.

By the way, the tax form has an area to claim tips which is EXPECTED to
be filled out by waiters and wiatresses.

Mario

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From: Gordon Mulcaster <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 96 10:25:23 -0800

In article <[email-masked]>, John Lo writes:

> Not !!! I've always hated the establishments that automatically add a
> 15-20% service 'gratuity' charge onto your bill. It appears to me this
> is what you are proposing. Lets all give a gratuity regardless of how
> good  (or lousy)  the service is. That's insane in my mind.

I just want the restaurant to pay their employees a mutually agreeable 
amount, and charge me for my meal (yes, I want them to build it into the 
price). I detest having to supplement the waiter's salary.

When is the last time you tipped a cashier at "Safeway" 15% for doing their 
job? When's the last time you tipped a 7-11 worker 15% by saying "keep the 
change" from a $5 on a $4.35 bill? Have you ever tipped a gas jockey 15% 
for filling your tank, cleaning your windshield and checking your oil?
--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a
source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect
it."[email-masked] (1992)
        [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Ron Clement)
Date: 30 Jul 1996 16:21:38 GMT

Distribution: 

Much discussion here.  I have read much and would like to point out a few 
things.  First one pointed out that a 15% tip on a $50 bill is $7.50.  He 
assumed an averge stay of 2 hours in the restaurant (mildly high I think 
but we'll use it anyways).  So that translates into $3.75 per hour 
extra.  Now let us assume that the waiter/ress has 4 full tables at a 
time...let me see, they make $6.00 per hour and 4x$3.75=$15/hr tips which 
is $21.00 per hour.  That works out be be a salary of $43,680 per year.  
Now lets get real here.  Most waiters don't make that much but they would 
like to according to what I have heard here.  A job that requires no 
education past grade 10, minimal training, and little responsibility.  
What is that worth?...max $10 per hour.  Personally I see little reason 
to tip for average service...that is what minimum wage covers.  If the 
service is above average tipps start, exceptional service gets a good 
tip.  If waiters don't like this, they can get another job.  Tips are for 
above and beyond service in my book, as are bonuses in business and other 
employment rewards.  Waiters ought not expect to get tipped, they ought 
to work hard for the customers and they would find that by doing this, 
their tips would improve.  If I receive poor service, not only will there 
be no tip (usually a insult gratuity) but I will approach a manager and 
complain against the employee who was not doing their job, just like I 
would if I went to Sears and someone was rude/etc.

So my point?  If you are a waiter and make $6 per hour and average 4 
tables at a time, if each table left a $2 tip on a $50 order, you would 
be making $10/hr and considering what the job is worth, you would be 
making a very decent wage.

Ron