From alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Mon Apr 26 10:38:15 1993 Path: utcsri!utnut!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Ted_Eugene_Viens From: Ted_Eugene_Viens@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Subject: The WACO Fiasco Message-ID: <80238@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 03:42:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: usa Lines: 138 ----- Chuck writes.... >In article <1qv8nb$3q3@hpchase.rose.hp.com> k@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Steve Kao) writes: > >>So you think that Federal officials blatantly violating the US >>Constitution to kill someone who was hurting no one is a GOOD THING? > >>I personally think the agents involved ought to be tried in a court of >>law for violating their oaths to defend the Constitution, and if >>convicted, deprived of all their property and thrown into prison for >>life. If convicted of murder (which is what I think they committed), >>they should be executed. > > > >What is this? A joke or something? > >These religious fanatics shot several federal agents and killed them >if I remembered. And you have the balls to say they weren't hurting >"no one"? Where the hell have you been. > Much deleted... >I suppose you think they should of just let 'em hang out with their >weapons since they hadn't hurt anybody to that point, right? Or maybe >you think that the federal agents they shot at should of hurried over >there to put them out. > >Get real man... > >Chuck > Well Chuck. It must be real comfortable to swallow the police agency propaganda hook line and sinker. This is what belonging to the mainstream means. Why question the actions of your portectors? And God forbid that any group wander too far from the current orthodoxy... Certainly I know no more about this tragedy than you do... The America I grew up in purported not to so self-righteously enforce its orthodoxy... What were the Davidians crimes.... They owned $200,000 worth of weapons. Some claimed to be modified illegally. The leader preached fire and brimstone, impending catastrophe and persecution by the civil authorities. There were rumors of child abuse. These two hundred plus people held devout and real religious beliefs that others considered demented, crazy, sick or dangerous. Certainly these must be capital sins... After all these criminal people were all killed. Surely a fit and just punishment... Now shall we try to learn the truth here. Law Enforcement Officials are protected by their position ONLY if they act LEGALLY. An ILLEGAL raid on private property is an invasion in FACT as well as in appearance. If the raid was undertaken illegally, and if the BATF fired first, the Agents were behaving as CRIMINALS and their deaths were justified manslaughter. A chronology of the Feb 28 raid portrays a very restrained cult (increasingly as more is learned.) A cult member, driving home from town, sees the BATF arming them- selves at the little league park. He arrives home and tells DK. The informant sees this happen and is told by DK that they are about to be attacked and that the informant should leave for his safety. The informant returns to his office and tells his superiors this news in time for this to be included in the Search Warrant. The BATF continues to prepare while being told that the cult knows that they are coming. The cult members arm themselves according to their deep religious beliefs and prepares for the attack by the BATF. Four helicopters (some dishonestly and therefore illegally acquired from the Texas National Guard) begin to menacingly buzz the compound. Compound members shoot down the helicopters apparently without wounding any of the flying agents. The BATF attack force of about ONE HUNDRED AGENTS arrives at the compound and deploys according to their plan without meeting any resistance or defense from the compound. This includes walking up to the compound walls and climbing ladders to the roofs of several sections. The BATF knocks on the door and simutaneously begins breaking into windows in several locations. DK opens the front door, holds up a hand, announces that there are woman and children inside, and closes the door. Gunfire starts from an unknown source. Everyone opens fire from both sides. Five to ten agents enter the compound through windows and meet unexpected gunfire. Three are killed. The rest retreat quickly. Intense crossfire on the main BATF attack force quickly causes most of the wounded agents, stops the offence and causes the eighty or so agents to surrender and throw down their weapons. One agent is killed near the trailers they used to sneak into the compound. The very restrained cult members stop their fire without taking the unfair opportunity to eradicate the BATF force lying on the ground as easy targets in front of them. The cult allows the agent to stand up, collect their dead and wounded, turn with their hands above their heads and retreat peacefully. The agents leave the compound harrassing illegally press reporters and possibly illegally confiscating some news footage. BATF Publicity agents begin formulating a sterile and dishonest account of this fiasco... Knowledge of this raid is still thin but I doubt much of this misses the TRUTH. Now Chuck, if this type of police behavior fits your image of JUST American behavior, you and I have different visions of this land of the brave and the free. This behavior violates my concept of democratic police action and in my opinion gives cause for criminal prosecution of the federal agents respon- sible for this action in our name... Lets review the alleged crimes of the cult or DK. They owned weapons worth about $1000.00 for each adult in the compound. When I was 12 in 1962, I owned three weapons worth about $250.00 in 1962 dollars. Less weapons than many of my friends. This is equivalent to more than $1500.00 in todays dollars. Was I a violent 12 years old threat to my community? DK regularly preached fire and catastrophe to his followers. Every Sunday perhaps more than 100,000 preachers preach these stories of fiery wrath of god and ultimate catastrophe. I truth- fully find that most religious preaching borders on the demented and insane and is potentially dangerous. Should we incarcerate a few hundred religious leaders this Sunday? There were stories of child abuse at the compound. Some believe that two out of every ten adults abuse children physically or sexually on repeated occasions. Should our federal agents raid the homes of 40,000,000 adults this week and jail or kill them? The Davidian cult members were devout spiritual believers in the preaching of DK. Is this a gross violation of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the spirit and philosophy of these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?????? ----- Get real Chuck.... Bye... Ted..