From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!viking.mpr.ca!larsen Wed Jul 31 08:01:53 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53037 tor.forsale.misc:3844 tor.general:51170 Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!viking.mpr.ca!larsen From: larsen@mpr.ca (P. Allen Larsen) Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Subject: Tipping Date: 29 Jul 1996 15:54:01 GMT Organization: Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4timqp$pld@viking.mpr.ca> References: <31f998e3.5037737@198.80.55.1> <4tcj14$gu@news1.io.org> <4tg87b$n4p@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.mpr.ca In article <4tg87b$n4p@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> fuct@netcom.ca writes: > >Put yourself in their shoes. A long shift in a crowded place with >plenty of people asking for your attention, being constantly on your >feet, with a pinch of rude customers here, and perhaps a dash of >sexual harrassment there. How happy would you be after a day of this, >knowing you are making $6 an hour? If you think about it, you will >realize that you should always leave tips, because these people >deserve it *by default*. I really hate this argument. Do you tip the sales clerk when you buy a pair of jeans at a shop in a mall? Do you tip the clerk at a convenience store or a gas station? These people work long shifts with people asking for their attention, constantly on their feet, dealing with rude and harrassing customers as well. Yet many of them make the minimum $6 an hour as well, and they rarely receive any tips. If food servers deserve tips by default, then should every other person working in a public service job? Who's to say that waiters and waitresses deserve the tip more than the corner store clerk who is enjoying the rare evening out? Al. From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news Wed Jul 31 08:03:04 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53035 tor.forsale.misc:3843 tor.general:51169 Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news From: Mario Kasapi Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Subject: Re: Restaurant tipping Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:03:28 -0700 Organization: Biomaterials Lab Lines: 28 Message-ID: <31FCE0D0.726@unixg.ubc.ca> References: <31f09417.4939934@news.jumppoint.com> <31f25cc8.9439843@207.93.1.8> <19960721.6F0C8.C605@mail.direct.ca> <31f998e3.5037737@198.80.55.1> <4tcj14$gu@news1.io.org> <4tg87b$n4p@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4tglrs$rs0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <31fc774d.76125557@nntp.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crypt.zoology.ubc.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) A lot of people are missing the point about tipping. Whether you like it or not our society, and others, have evolved such that the CUSTOMER pays most of a waiter/waitresses wages. Since most restaurants pay their servers minimum wage (or very close to it) and most of the servers are adults (because WE expect mature service), it is virtually impossible for these people to survive on what their employer pays them alone. So the fact is, waiters and waitresses (that aren't unionized) could not earn a decent living here without tips. This is what I suggest from my experience having worked in the restaurant business for a number of years. If service is OK or better, tip your server 15% or better. Only if the service has been VERY bad or the server was rude should you not leave anything. Most people stay in a restaurant for about 2 hours. A $7.50 tip (on a $50 food bill for a couple) over two hours is an extra $3.75 per hour from that table. It's not much for the customer, but it adds up for the server, and servers don't have that many tables. A few bad tips in one night adds up (or subtracts) quickly. Some people are just assholes and won't leave tips no matter how good the server is (I've seen it happen to excellent servers MANY times), and some people just forget (I think). Most servers don't live in the lap of luxury either so by all means if the service is very bad, don't leave a penny, but just know that they'll feel the pinch. By the way, the tax form has an area to claim tips which is EXPECTED to be filled out by waiters and wiatresses. Mario From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!news.synapse.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!gordonm!portal Wed Jul 31 08:03:37 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53081 tor.forsale.misc:3858 tor.general:51215 Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!news.synapse.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!gordonm!portal From: Gordon Mulcaster Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Subject: Re: Restaurant tipping Date: Mon, 29 Jul 96 10:25:23 -0800 Organization: Megadodo Publishing, Megadodo House, Ursa Minor Lines: 23 Message-ID: <96072910252300765@portal.ca> References: <4tglrs$rs0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Reply-To: gordonm@portal.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: d185.portal.ca X-Newsreader: rnMac v1.3b9 In article <4tglrs$rs0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, John Lo writes: > Not !!! I've always hated the establishments that automatically add a > 15-20% service 'gratuity' charge onto your bill. It appears to me this > is what you are proposing. Lets all give a gratuity regardless of how > good (or lousy) the service is. That's insane in my mind. I just want the restaurant to pay their employees a mutually agreeable amount, and charge me for my meal (yes, I want them to build it into the price). I detest having to supplement the waiter's salary. When is the last time you tipped a cashier at "Safeway" 15% for doing their job? When's the last time you tipped a 7-11 worker 15% by saying "keep the change" from a $5 on a $4.35 bill? Have you ever tipped a gas jockey 15% for filling your tank, cleaning your windshield and checking your oil? -- "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."--spaf@cs.purdue.edu (1992) gordonm@portal.ca From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!hookup!news.ccs.queensu.ca!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!hwfn!james!ac348 Wed Jul 31 08:05:41 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53202 tor.forsale.misc:3908 tor.general:51354 Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!n2tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!hookup!news.ccs.queensu.ca!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!hwfn!james!ac348 From: ac348@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Ron Clement) Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Subject: Re: Restaurant tipping Followup-To: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Date: 30 Jul 1996 16:21:38 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4tlcqi$oqq@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> References: <31f09417.4939934@news.jumppoint.com> <31f25cc8.9439843@207.93.1.8> <19960721.6F0C8.C605@mail.direct.ca> <31f998e3.5037737@198.80.55.1> <4tcj14$gu@news1.io.org> <4tg87b$n4p@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4tglrs$rs0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <31fc774d.7 NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] Distribution: Much discussion here. I have read much and would like to point out a few things. First one pointed out that a 15% tip on a $50 bill is $7.50. He assumed an averge stay of 2 hours in the restaurant (mildly high I think but we'll use it anyways). So that translates into $3.75 per hour extra. Now let us assume that the waiter/ress has 4 full tables at a time...let me see, they make $6.00 per hour and 4x$3.75=$15/hr tips which is $21.00 per hour. That works out be be a salary of $43,680 per year. Now lets get real here. Most waiters don't make that much but they would like to according to what I have heard here. A job that requires no education past grade 10, minimal training, and little responsibility. What is that worth?...max $10 per hour. Personally I see little reason to tip for average service...that is what minimum wage covers. If the service is above average tipps start, exceptional service gets a good tip. If waiters don't like this, they can get another job. Tips are for above and beyond service in my book, as are bonuses in business and other employment rewards. Waiters ought not expect to get tipped, they ought to work hard for the customers and they would find that by doing this, their tips would improve. If I receive poor service, not only will there be no tip (usually a insult gratuity) but I will approach a manager and complain against the employee who was not doing their job, just like I would if I went to Sears and someone was rude/etc. So my point? If you are a waiter and make $6 per hour and average 4 tables at a time, if each table left a $2 tip on a $50 order, you would be making $10/hr and considering what the job is worth, you would be making a very decent wage. Ron From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!freenet-news.carleton.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!utcsri!cdf.toronto.edu!g4gortex Wed Jul 31 08:07:55 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53208 tor.forsale.misc:3912 tor.general:51359 Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!freenet-news.carleton.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!utcsri!cdf.toronto.edu!g4gortex From: g4gortex@cdf.toronto.edu (Steve Biggs) Subject: Re: Restaurant tipping X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eddie Message-ID: Sender: news@cdf.toronto.edu (Usenet News) Organization: Computing Disciplines Facility, University of Toronto References: <31FD222B.1E0FF70@iceonline.com> <96072920471500777@portal.ca> <4tlep1$3ce@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:16:11 GMT Lines: 36 In article <4tlep1$3ce@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Steve Ruelle wrote: >Gordon Mulcaster (gordonm@portal.ca) wrote: >: What is the conection between taxi drivers and waiters? >: Why don't we tip McDonalds employees? > >Good point. Everyone who works in the service industry is in the same >boat. We work our asses off, deal with rude customers, put in long >hours, and get minimum wage as our return. Although convention plays a >large role in tipping restaurants for service, other service oriented >establishments lose out on the tips namely Mcdonalds, 7-11, gas stations, >and convenience stores. Although I personally don't work at McD's, I've >observed all the shit the employees put up with while I was waiting for my >food and it would be nice if these people could get a little bit extra >for all the work they do. What about the people who work behind the scenes? I used to work in a kitchen (long time ago) and took a lot of shit from these "poor, pitiable" waiters and waitresses. In the year and a half I worked there, I saw a tip once because someone had the sense to realize that the watiers and waitresses are not the only ones who work for minimum wage in tough conditions. Now, I don't agree with tipping. In fact, I am of the thinking that tipping is only for exceptional service, no for acceptable service. I'm just trying to make the point that when it comes to tipping, we really discriminates. There are a lot of jobs out there that we don't tip for, yet the person doing that job deserves a tip just as much as a waiter or waitress (if not more). It's ridiculous to expect us to tip everyone, don't yo uthink? -- Steven Biggs steve@aix.can.ibm.com University of Toronto g4gortex@cdf.utoronto.ca IBM Canada Ltd bt761@freenet.carleton.ca ** Check out the all new http://cdf.utoronto.ca/~g4gortex ** From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!freenet-news.carleton.ca!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!gordonm!portal Wed Jul 31 08:09:33 1996 Xref: elastic can.general:53275 tor.forsale.misc:3934 tor.general:51419 Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!ftn.net!news.storm.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!freenet-news.carleton.ca!van-bc!nntp.portal.ca!gordonm!portal From: Gordon Mulcaster Newsgroups: van.general,bc.general,direct.general,jumppt.general,can.general,ott.general,tor.general,van.forsale,tor.forsale.misc,ab.general Subject: Re: Restaurant tipping Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 14:47:40 -0800 Organization: Megadodo Publishing, Megadodo House, Ursa Minor Lines: 19 Message-ID: <96073014474000785@portal.ca> References: <4tlmsd$fm6@blackice.winternet.com> Reply-To: gordonm@portal.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: d171.portal.ca X-Newsreader: rnMac v1.3b9 In article <4tlmsd$fm6@blackice.winternet.com>, sysmatt writes: > Have you ever made between 4.20 and 5.85 an hour for pumpiung gas, or > serving donuts or anything like that? Yes I have. And I never got or expected tips. > remember the minimum wage in ontario is now what 7.00, and i think > for a server it is around 4.85 Explain to me why their wage is any of my concern? -- "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."--spaf@cs.purdue.edu (1992) gordonm@portal.ca