Subject: Gov. publication Ban against DR. JOE BAPTISTA .. Cheers!
From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Date: 29 Dec 1994 00:45:52 GMT
Newsgroups: tor.general,can.general,can.politics,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.journalism,soc.culture.canada,alt.activism,alt.2600,ont.general

Gov. publication Ban against DR. JOE BAPTISTA .. Cheers!

Yes - it's true.  The police chiefs for Sarnia, London, Toronto, and Windsor
are asking the Ontario Court that it place a publication Ban on the methods
I have used to destroy them - and in their own words .. caused harm and
damages that can never be adequately compensated.  True!

I've had such good fun damaging your governments, and it entertains me to
note that I have yet to start the good stuff.  This past year was a minor
experimental test run - can you imagine the damage we'll see from the full
blown project.  It's exciting.

Watch for Dr. Rileys postings to Ont.general concerning the court ban
request and have a giggle on my behalf.  Cheers!

	AND NOW A WARNING TO THE PEOPLE OF CANADA

Your governments are broken and you have very little time left before the
whole mess crashes down on you.  The damage I'm causing to your governments,
is minor in comparison to existing system error.  I've just managed to 
employ it rather well.

And well, what can I say.  If you don't do something to fix your governments
soon ... just remember, when it all falls apart, and your all hidding from
each others savagery, I told you so.

Cheers
Joe Baptista
Earth, HUMAN IN CHARGE
--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

Xref: utcsri tor.general:17915
Path: utcsri!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!pcs44!allisat
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Dec 1994 21:39:30 GMT
From: [email-masked]
Organization: non communications
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Fwd: Internex Infochill
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: tor.general

             I n t e r n e x

            I n f o C h i l l

     For months now Jason Smith
     and other stalwarts of Internex
     On-line have been warning me.
     Others have threatening me
     personally both in the newsgroups
     and via private E-mail. Here is
     one of the Private E-mail threats
     I have filed away for future
     reference. 

     Again it is tabboo  to post E-mail
     but I feel extremely germaine to a
     clear understanding of the people
     at Internex. I quote:

AM> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 19:34:12 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Mac kinnon
AM> <[email-masked]> To: Allisat <[email-masked]> Subject: Re:
AM> Dismemberment Day 
AM> 
AM> 
AM> Bob if we meet, in person i suggest u prepare for violence not only
AM> from me, but lots of people. You live in a dream world pal, a
AM> chamberlin "peace in hour time" head in the sand, and in your ass,
AM> world. 
AM> 
AM> 
AM> You have no fucking clue, and i would swear to the at in court 
AM> 
AM> Alex 
AM> 
AM> 
AM>
AM>
______________________________________________________________________________

AM>         Using order to deal with the disorderly, using calm to deal 
AM>         with the clamorous, is mastering the heart.

     There are other similar threats of
     violence - and of electronic sabotage. In
     fact (see my post "io.org LOCK-OUT")
     Mr. Smith intimates he had knowledge 
     of such illegal and unethical acts and
     sought to avoid them by turfing my
     account. Note that he did NOT advocate
     pursuing the people planning to un-
     lawfully disrupt io.org and my account.
     His cure was to get rid of me.
	
     And For what reason I ask you? Did I 
     harrass or abuse any individual? Did I "Spam"
     hundreds of newsgroups or waste excessive
     "Bandwidth"? Did I post illegal articles
     or pursue any illegal activities using
     the Internex account I paid for? 

     The answers to all of these questions
     is NO. A resounding no. 
	
     I was removed from Internex On-Line
     precisely for my opinions. There is
     no other explaination. The people who
     use and run Internex don't agree with
     my ideas. They tried to silence me by
     participating in the discussion. They
     tried to threaten and harrass me into
     silence. Finally they gathered their
     collective guts together to kick me
     off of their system hacking together
     all kinds of stupid excuses.
	
     No matter what these fellows say this
     "Lock-out" from my account is bare
     and ugly censorship. It is my turn now
     and your turn next. That is the way
     things are going. I am merely the
     example, the first, the scape of many
     goats to come.
	
     Allusions made by some to fascism
     and oppression are accurate not in
     specific detail. However in emotional
     tone they are bang on. I feel a great
     sense of loss and foreboding right
     now. I am worried about our future
     and about the future of freedom of
     expression in this brave new info
     world.
	
     The Infochill my removal from Internex
     On-Line will cause is immeasurable. It
     is the straw that may well break many
     a camels back to come. Precidents have
     a way of happening at the funniest
     times. Here I go defending street 
     people and Mr. Smith and company yank 
     my Internet access. Read tor.arts for
     the specifics. Perhaps it was the
     season or the water or just plain
     meanness on their part. Or maybe they
     really fear what I say and are acting
     with their bowels discharging and
     minds on adrenaline.
	
     Regardless the message passes. Make
     waves, speak your mind, talk about the
     unspeakable and unfashionable and you
     will be "terminated". You are all in
     the exact same place I was. At their
     mercy. How does it feel? Is this our
     future? To be held accountable not
     to the laws of the land but to a
     few administrators and their cronies?
     Looks like it ...

Xref: utcsri alt.censorship:37359 alt.society.civil-liberty:16688 can.general:40969 can.legal:5452 comp.org.eff.talk:43622 misc.legal:111099 ont.general:22376 tor.general:17954
Path: utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!mcrcim.mcgill.edu!not-for-mail
From: [email-masked] (David Jones)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,can.legal,misc.legal,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.pub-ban.homolka,alt.fan.karla-homolka,alt.censorship,alt.society.civil-liberty,tor.general
Subject: Police ask court to overrule Access to Information Act !
Date: 30 Dec 1994 18:26:30 -0500
Organization: Centre For Intelligent Machines, McGill University
Lines: 49
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.mcrcim.mcgill.edu

 
 
The Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act
of Ontario will be tested in court on Wednesday, January 4, 1995.
 
An important part of the Act is that you need not explain why you
are requesting access to public records.  This may soon change.
 
Recently, Robert Riley requested records from the Sarnia police
in order to investigate their activities while investigating
alleged breaches of the Homolka publication ban involving
computer bulletin boards.  The police were sloppy.  They disclosed
private and personal information.  The Information and Privacy
Commissioner of Ontario investigated.
 
The police are embarrassed, and tired of responding to the access
to information requests.  The Ontario Information and Privacy Commissioner
says the requests are lawful, and they must comply.  But police don't want
to comply.  They've asked a judge to grant a permanent injunction,
declaring that Act does not apply to two specific individuals:
Robert Riley, and Joe Baptista.  Who's next, investigative reporters
from the Globe & Mail ?
 
In their application, they even ask the court to overrule the Commissioner
in charge of enforcing the Act:
--
1. The Applicants make application for:
  ...
  (c) A Declaration that any Order of the Information and Privacy
      Commissioner of Ontario directing the applicants to provide
      access to records in their custody or control to Robert Riley
      and/or Jose Luis (Joe) Baptista is of no force and effect;
--

This is serious stuff -- front page news today in Sarnia and London.

-----
Newspaper articles can be found in the EFC archives:
 
  Mosaic URL:      gopher://ee.mcgill.ca/11/community/efc/events/access/
  Gopher command:  gopher -p "1/community/efc/events/access" ee.mcgill.ca
  Anonymous FTP:   insight.mcmaster.ca, /pub/efc/events/access/
 
More files will appear, as they become available.

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Path: utcsri!rutgers!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!interlog.com!planet!baptista
From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,can.legal,misc.legal,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.pub-ban.homolka,alt.fan.karla-homolka,alt.censorship,alt.society.civil-liberty,tor.general
Subject: Re: Police ask court to overrule Access to Information Act !
Followup-To: ont.general,can.general,can.legal,misc.legal,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.pub-ban.homolka,alt.fan.karla-homolka,alt.censorship,alt.society.civil-liberty,tor.general
Date: 1 Jan 1995 00:56:23 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 47
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Chris Lewis ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>,
: David Jones <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >In article <[email-masked]>,
: >Pax <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >>In article <[email-masked]>,
: >>Jim Black <[email-masked]> wrote:
: >>Was this request "ordinary?"

: >	Should only "ordinary" requests for information be honoured?

: >>What were the objectives of the inquiry?

: >	It is an important part of the current Access to Information
: >	legislation that you do not have to specify WHY you want
: >	access to the public records you've requested.  Why would
: >	an investigative reporter want to tip his hand?  It would
: >	only invite delays and obfuscation.

: Agreed.  The FOI is an important piece of legislation in a free society.
: But it need adjustment to prevent abuse from such as Baptista, whose only
: purpose is to abuse the system and spend as much taxpayer's money as
: possible.  Baptista isn't interested in any of the information he obtains,
: just being able to brag about how much it's costing us.

Actually, it's much more then that.  In all wars the cost to the population
is the only factor having value.  In this case, the government has already
prepaired legislation that will significantly cost big buck for any info
requested.  Yes, thaat legislation is our doing too.  This court case can
only serve to limit access to information .. again satisfying the war effort
of passing and increasing costs to you the tax payer, and force government
to deny you access.

As you can see, the war effort goes well.  The only people effected are the
little people, like you - who lose something the government has always
considered a priviledge, access to itself.

Cheers
Joe Baptista

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,can.politics,alt.2600,alt.activism,alt.journalism,tor.general
Subject: I don't believe it - Publication Ban
Date: 31 Dec 1994 06:14:57 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I see.  When the shit hit's the fan, and I expense my governments (as reported)
my detractors have melted away.  What's up folks - not scary enough?

Well, so much for my detractors.  Pity though, I do enjoy their screaming so
much, and now that it has been reported I cost you millions, I hear only
silence.  No wonder the human race is in such a fine mess.

Now let's get it together people, freedom of information in the Province of
Ontario has been placed in jeopardy, curtesy of me and my devine associate
Dr. Riley.  Dr. Riley believes in freedom of information, as for me - let me
assure all of you - it's not my department.  This is your collective battle -
enjoy.  But get off your collective asses because this part of the play will
move quickly.  You will have no opportunity to diddle.  Act or lose access
to freedom of information.

In conclusion, let me thank all Ontarians for the pleasure of placing your
governments in jeopardy and moving forward the destruction of freedom of
information in Ontario in my continued W.A.R. effort with my governments
de jour.

And a special thanks to the taxpayers of this province.  Without you non of
this would of been possible.  You have served me well, and I look forward
to another year accessing your pocket.  Many projects, many more opportunities.

And since this freedom of information circus is possibly the top news story
in Ontario, I once again open the new year with a gang buster.

What can I say - it's good to be me!

Cheers and a very happy new year
Joe Baptista

P.S.  If you all stop paying taxes .. I promise to fix your government.  It
was broken when I started, and I think you people desearve better - think
about it.

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

Xref: utcsri ont.general:22412
Path: utcsri!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!pcs44!allisat
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 31 Dec 1994 15:28:53 GMT
From: [email-masked]
Organization: non communications
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Forbidden 
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: ont.general

 [email-masked] (Jason Smith) wrote

> Oh please!!!  IO cannot possibly forbid publication of anything Bob Allisat
> says.  Bob, like anyone else, can use another service provider to express
> his views and IO cannot prevent it, much less forbid it.  If you had a look
> at this group lately, you would have noticed postings from [email-masked].
> It does not seem that IO was successful in forbidding Allisat from posting
> news.

        My non.com address and non 
        communications (the Internet
        Service Provider I am starting)
        are simply not ready for any
        activities. I was planning on
        opening non.com to the public
        and switching all of my activities
        to that server in mid-1995. And I
        would have paid my Internex account
        well into 1996 regardless.

        Internex On-Line, at your insistance,
        has locked me out of the only
        functional account I happen to
        have. I am now forced - against my
        wishes, despite having a solvent
        account and after having done nothing
        unethical or illegal - into a very
        difficult position.
        
        All of my personal E-mail has been
        disrupted. All of the mailing List
        Correspondences I have paid for are
        inaccessable, I cannot post or read
        the NewsGroups as I had expected to
        be able to by paying my bills and
        acting reasonably.

        The server I am now using is running
        Beta software and is unstable at the
        best of times. I have to manually
        edit every message that goes out
        to avoid internet guideline violations.
        And all because you don't like my
        opinions!

        My rights have been violated in a
        way you don't seem to understand -
        Perhaps this is a result of the fact
        that you are one of the gang doing
        the violation. Your hallo has slipped
        Jason. Into the mud. I hope you can
        keep your head long enough to find it
        again.
        
        The option of simply un-locking my
        account and re-imbursing my losses
        remains your only escape from being
        dead wrong. Eat crow. Say Uncle. 
        Admit you're wrong and do the honest
        thing.

Xref: utcsri alt.censorship:37676 alt.society.civil-liberty:16997 can.general:41628 can.legal:5599 comp.org.eff.talk:43801 misc.legal:112563 ont.general:22828 tor.general:18373
Path: utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!uunet!news.mathworks.com!hookup!interlog.com!planet!baptista
From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,can.legal,misc.legal,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.pub-ban.homolka,alt.fan.karla-homolka,alt.censorship,alt.society.civil-liberty,tor.general
Subject: Re: Police ask court to overrule Access to Information Act !
Date: 6 Jan 1995 22:37:11 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 59
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Exceptional analysis ..  A+ - you think well.

Cheers
Joe Baptista

RW ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Baptista's antics point to some weaknesses in our governmental
: power structures and in our governmental information handling
: systems.

: First, the government agencies are often run with layers of
: microscopic regulations piled onto a bedrock precribed procedures.
: The bureaucrat has little authority beyond his procedure manual.
: Secondly, there is a rigid hierarchy in the civil services of most
: nations. These governmental structures are vast societies with
: thier own cultures and values. These red-tape fifedoms do not
: value creative responses as much as they value the definable
: transmission of authority.

: Information in police files can be requested in Canada under the 
: freedom of information act. The constabulary must read the requested
: documents and "sever" information that should not be distributed.
: This is very onerous because a low-level employee cannot think.
: The functional need for the defined transmission of centralized
: authority demands that line employees obey rather than think.
: In this scheme, subjective decisions, such as what information
: is to be severed must be made by a manager. I guess the chief
: of police gets the chore. In order to delegate this type of
: chore to low level employees, it would be necesary to create
: one of those nice policy and procedure manuals with the nifty
: flow charts and the commensurate training centre/lecture series
: and trainners kits, and a technical support centre needed to 
: implement the new goodies. All of this, of course would probably
: require a commensurate budget and enabling legislation.

: It is amazing how governments all look alike. You can elect
: a radically leftwing government or a rightious rightwing
: bunch and they wind up looking pretty similar after they
: take office. One of the reasons is that the civil services
: are so slow to change that nobody ever gets enough tenure
: or has enough stamina to really move a civil service.

: Documentation is the currency of a civil service. Baptista
: is vandalizing the documentation handling system at some
: Ontario cop-shops by merely requesting documents. This
: probably _is_ overloading the managers. I doubt that any
: front line cops are prevented from catching crooks.

: --Randy

: --------- [email-masked] ---------------------

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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Path: utcsri!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!mcrcim.mcgill.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!interlog.com!planet!baptista
From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: can.general,ont.general,tor.general,alt.journalism
Subject: Re: ATTENTION SHOPPERS Re: Police ask court to overrule Access to In
Followup-To: can.general,ont.general,tor.general,alt.journalism
Date: 8 Jan 1995 07:34:06 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Geoffrey Welsh ([email-masked]) wrote:
: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista) writes:

: > By my calculations 200 making continuous F.O.I.R.'s would close down
: > the province of Ontario's F.O.I. depos.  Shall we?

: Be careful, Joe: they might just expand the facilities to respond to those 
: requests and reallocate funds from the social benefits of deadbeats like 
: yourself. 

Could happen, in which case it's time for dinner.

Cheers
Joe Baptista
--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: ATTENTION SHOPPERS - NEXT WEEKS NEWS
Date: 7 Jan 1995 01:00:28 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Are we having fun yet?  I'm not fully convinced were having fun.  And if I
don't think were having fun, it is quite obvious to me that I have in some
way failed the cause.

There is no doubt in my mind that the level of fun, is not yet at an
acceptable level.  The cabal and other denizens of the canadian newsgroups
provide me with no end of fun as they rant and rave.  But the ranting and
raving these days are shadows of what I'm used to seeing.

It would seem the ranting and raving has been replaced by a small scattering
of people dealing with the issue.  An improvement, and a surprise.  A nice
surprise.  But I miss the ranting and raving.

I therefore order up a slew of fun.

For the last year I have provided details of my Freedom of Information
campaign to both the ARA (Anti-Racist Action) and HF (Heritage Front).  Guess
who won the challenge?

                         ATTENTION SHOPPERS - HF FOI

It is a pleasure to announce that the Toronto based Heritage Front is
joining the freedom of information campaign.  We have provided the group
with a complete FAX database/contacts and directives for FOI.

I anticipate the FOI process will be enriched through the participation of
HF.  Their resources are much more broader then ours, in manpower etc. etc.
This should gurantee a more effective penetration of FOI proceedures and
processes.

It is interesting to note that in my discussions with them they were them-
selves very concerned with the FOI process and want to see improvements in
the system.  I wish them the very best of luck.

Also, before I forget .. expect them on the internet within two weeks.  The
ARA is already established here and with the advent of HF I anticipate a
fine display of cyberspace war.  It's gonna be a fun filled year of action
packed adventure.

And I'm sure all would agree it's better these groups fight here then in
real time space.  So much cleaner this way.

Cheers
Joe Baptista

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: I don't believe it -
Date: 8 Jan 1995 18:52:19 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Tom Savage ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Dr. Joe Baptista conveyed to ALL  regarding Re: I don't believe it - :
: DB> I am taking responsibility .. I don't like government so i'm
: DB> destroying it, and if you have read the news articles at electronic
: DB> frontier canada gopher you would also see it's costing, ultimately
: DB> you the taxpayers millions.
: DB> 
: DB> I think that economic pain is good punishment to those who are
: DB> irresponsible.

: Yes but you are punishing ALL the taxpayers. The taxpayers are not the
: irresponsible ones, only the ones that vote them into office.

I disagree, the taxpayer is irresponsible.  I hold the taxpayer fully 
responsible for funding this mess.  Those taxpayers who don't like the
mess and continue paying for it are defined as hypocrits.

So you see the punishment is being directed at the appropriate atthorities.

Voters, on the other hand are people who get royally fucked once ever
four years and then go back for more.  But don't confuse voters with
taxpayers, the mandate and power base is totally different between the
two.

Cheers
Joe Baptista

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: [email-masked] (RW)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION SHOPPERS Re: Police ask court to overrule Access to In
Distribution: world 
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Organization: RW development
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 00:14:31 GMT
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Followup-To: can.general,ont.general,tor.general,alt.journalism
Lines: 72

Geoffrey Welsh ([email-masked]) wrote:

: Be careful, Joe: they might just expand the facilities to respond to those 
: requests and reallocate funds from the social benefits of deadbeats like 
: yourself. 

When I first encountered stories of Baptista's legal vandalism, I
was pissed, and I have found his egotism less than endearing. But
I'm no longer totally pissed off. Here's why:

Maybe it's possible that FOI requests could jeapordize social programs,
but I doubt it. It is more likely that the governments will see the 
value of _automating_ the collection and processing of data. If they 
automated, they could hose Baptista with info rather having him snow 
them with few petty requests. In the process, the government would also 
begin to notice that they could save enormous amounts of tax bucks by 
automating information processing. The information Baptista requests
should be in a bloody database system. It should be possible to enter 
a query for the requested information. The reports should come out of 
the system far faster than Baptista could possibly request it.

Furthermore, any politician ought to be able to request this stuff.
They need it in order to govern. The politicians are flying blind 
and so are voters. Easy access to detailed information would allow 
governments to do the same hierarchy flattening that businesses have 
had to do.

One of the most abundant activities in governments is still the 
act of shuffling paper. I believe the Federal Auditor commented 
on the absurd lack of automation in that level of government.

Baptista, as juvenile as he appears to be, is highlighting
the dinosaur methods of a bureaucracy unwilling to adopt 
efficient ways of doing stuff. He is also gaining widespread 
publicity in doing so without breaking the law.

Tax payers are screaming for an end to public debt. Automating
government could have a profound effect on the bottom line. The
kinds of savings available in automation of these paperwork
empires is great. It probably could reverse the deficit and 
actually start to pay off debts. If politicians use the kind 
of systems needed to fill Baptista's requests easily and cheaply, 
the politicians could actually govern. They could flatten the 
heirarchy a great deal, and actually put program money into 
programs rather than into adminstration.

If you look at the reqests that Baptista is making and attempt
imagine the type of system that could fullfill them, you would
probably conclude that it is not merely the compterization of
existing methods. It is a reengineering. Such a system would
provide an ability to actually see what is going on in government
agencies. Honorable members might be able to assess thier ability 
to actually deliver what is promised and come up with proposals
that do not generate cynisism.

This automation would, however, render thousands, if not tens of 
thousands of workers redundant. Even with substantial attrition 
programs and widespread 'golden handshakes' the there would be 
"wailing and gnashing of teeth". Great politcal will is require
in order to get a government to do such a thing. It might be 
impossible for an NDP government which depends on labour support.

Somebody is going to have to wade into the paper empires and
overhaul them. Unlike businesses, governments do not face
competitive pressures to adopt new methods. But they do
face voters. Taxpaying season is coming up. It is a time
when it is easy to generate anger toward government spending.
I think it will be interesting to watch.

--Randy

--------- [email-masked] ---------------------

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From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: can.general,ont.general,tor.general,alt.journalism
Subject: Re: ATTENTION SHOPPERS Re: Police ask court to overrule Access to In
Date: 9 Jan 1995 05:02:45 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 91
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Randy - I'm very impressed.  I only make this statement to advise
I have absolutly no dispute with anything you have said.  I am 
confident that if you take a more active role, and involve others
in intitiating these ideas and reforms, someday our children will
have a future to look forward too.

Kindest regards
Joe Baptista

RW ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Geoffrey Welsh ([email-masked]) wrote:

: : Be careful, Joe: they might just expand the facilities to respond to those 
: : requests and reallocate funds from the social benefits of deadbeats like 
: : yourself. 

: When I first encountered stories of Baptista's legal vandalism, I
: was pissed, and I have found his egotism less than endearing. But
: I'm no longer totally pissed off. Here's why:

: Maybe it's possible that FOI requests could jeapordize social programs,
: but I doubt it. It is more likely that the governments will see the 
: value of _automating_ the collection and processing of data. If they 
: automated, they could hose Baptista with info rather having him snow 
: them with few petty requests. In the process, the government would also 
: begin to notice that they could save enormous amounts of tax bucks by 
: automating information processing. The information Baptista requests
: should be in a bloody database system. It should be possible to enter 
: a query for the requested information. The reports should come out of 
: the system far faster than Baptista could possibly request it.

: Furthermore, any politician ought to be able to request this stuff.
: They need it in order to govern. The politicians are flying blind 
: and so are voters. Easy access to detailed information would allow 
: governments to do the same hierarchy flattening that businesses have 
: had to do.

: One of the most abundant activities in governments is still the 
: act of shuffling paper. I believe the Federal Auditor commented 
: on the absurd lack of automation in that level of government.

: Baptista, as juvenile as he appears to be, is highlighting
: the dinosaur methods of a bureaucracy unwilling to adopt 
: efficient ways of doing stuff. He is also gaining widespread 
: publicity in doing so without breaking the law.

: Tax payers are screaming for an end to public debt. Automating
: government could have a profound effect on the bottom line. The
: kinds of savings available in automation of these paperwork
: empires is great. It probably could reverse the deficit and 
: actually start to pay off debts. If politicians use the kind 
: of systems needed to fill Baptista's requests easily and cheaply, 
: the politicians could actually govern. They could flatten the 
: heirarchy a great deal, and actually put program money into 
: programs rather than into adminstration.

: If you look at the reqests that Baptista is making and attempt
: imagine the type of system that could fullfill them, you would
: probably conclude that it is not merely the compterization of
: existing methods. It is a reengineering. Such a system would
: provide an ability to actually see what is going on in government
: agencies. Honorable members might be able to assess thier ability 
: to actually deliver what is promised and come up with proposals
: that do not generate cynisism.

: This automation would, however, render thousands, if not tens of 
: thousands of workers redundant. Even with substantial attrition 
: programs and widespread 'golden handshakes' the there would be 
: "wailing and gnashing of teeth". Great politcal will is require
: in order to get a government to do such a thing. It might be 
: impossible for an NDP government which depends on labour support.

: Somebody is going to have to wade into the paper empires and
: overhaul them. Unlike businesses, governments do not face
: competitive pressures to adopt new methods. But they do
: face voters. Taxpaying season is coming up. It is a time
: when it is easy to generate anger toward government spending.
: I think it will be interesting to watch.

: --Randy

: --------- [email-masked] ---------------------

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: [email-masked] (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Bob Allisat's Account on Internex *LOCKED*
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Organization: Sound Software Ltd., Brampton, Ontario
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 15:38:06 GMT
Lines: 109

A couple of observations regarding this mess. My opinions only throughout.

After having verbally tangled with Bob from his first racist rant about
whites fleeing Toronto because of Caribana, I think I'm aware of his
abnormally high heat-to-light ratio. Still, I find myself in the strange
position of defending him.

DID BOB SAY ANYTHING THAT WARRANTED ACTION BY INTERNEX?

Based on what I've seen, no. It is still not yet a crime to be obnoxious,
even extremely so. I have not yet read any accusations of Bob engaging
in spams, totally out-of-the-norm use of resources, forgeries,
control-message wars, or any similar things which I would consider
actionable misuse of resources. Bob appears not to use more of IO's
own resources any more than any other individual with the time and
inclination to post the same number of postings as he has.

Bob's hasty Nazi comparisons are indeed offensive, and of little value
other than to get a rise out of readers. Still, they constitute little
actual crime other than to offend.

Yeah, the old "I disagree with what you say, but defend your right to
say it" stuff, still as valid today as ever. Even moreso, it seems.
The lines between offensiveness, harassment and assault have become so
blurred by political agendae that genuine criticism and satire is at risk.
The same protection offered to visionaries must be extended to loonies,
for only history will really know the difference between them.

Bob has offended many. According to any evidence I have seen, he has
harassed and assaulted none. Neither has he incited anyone else to
harass or assault.

At the very least, Bob Allisat has stood up for himself, not hiding
behind the aliases of the unsure or the sheer cowardice of anonymity.
He has stood to take the flak that follows his words, probably basking
in the knee-deep pile of insults (many of them deserved) that seem to
follow everything he says.

But that does not constitute reason for yanking an account from a system
that pretends to merely offer a resource.

2) DOES INTERNEX HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURGE ITSELF OF BOB ALLISAT?

Absolutely, though such action undermines any claims IO might have to
be an impartial common-carrier type operation.

Neither IO nor any other service provider owes Bob a soapbox, and to
suggest that the denial of such soapboxes constitutes censorship is
to throw up an inaccurate smoke-screen. Were Bob to print his rants,
nobody would call it censorship if the local print shop refused to
take the job to make copies of his drivel.

At the same time, though, IO's perception of its own responsibilities
lead one to a possibly-undesired conclusion. By dealing with a user
such as Allisat based on content, the administrators of IO seem to think
of their role as one of publisher, not mere provider of services.

In the muddy world of the information dirt road, IO's legal status is
uncertain; the direction the IO's keepers has charted, however, is not.
Any claim it wishes to establish in the future of being a "common
carrier", only to act upon its users when forced by law, has been
compromised. If anything, this route opens the door to *more* potential
liability for Internex than had it gone the other route. It has set the
precedent of booting someone based on content -- will others who are
offended by future IO users come to *expect* or even demand similar actions?

Frankly, I'm unnerved by IO's desire to *take on* more liability by
demonstrating a willingness -- if not desire -- to play content cop.
And, as I shop for an Internet service provider of my own, I must
consider the fact that something I say will some day offend somebody,
and that this somebody's complaint of my words would lead to my being
(at very least) investigated.

Internex's actions have protected nobody, least of all itself.

In a society which has become obsessed with (depending who you talk to)
either the spread or the elimination of what has come to be called
"political correctness", one becomes acutely aware of arbitrary controls
on one's ability to offend. There must be resistance against any
limitation of speech to that which offends nobody. Some of the greatest
ideas of mankind have at sometime been considered extremely offensive.
Not to say that any shred of Allisat's thought patterns could be
considered to have even a glimmer of greatness; yet, because of
circumstance, there he is, at the centre of it, just as he likes it.

In summary, I am saddened by the decision of Internex's keepers and
advisors, but it *is* theirs to make. I am all the more saddened to
know that such actions merely feed the attention-hungry, logic-free,
conspiracy-seeking psyches of the world's Bob Allisats.

Despite all the drivel, rantings and other incoherence that Bob has
produced in his time on the net, today it is Internex management's
collective turn to be even more offensive by this single act. But,
just like Bob, it has the right to be offensive, a right that cannot
be denied on a whim.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
       Novell Unix Master Reseller / [email-masked] / (905) 452-0504
                A happy traveller on the information sidewalk

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From: baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.censorship,alt.fan.karla-homolka,alt.journalism,alt.law-enforcement,alt.news-media,can.general,can.politics,can.legal,tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.society.generation-x,alt.society.anarchy,ont.general
Subject: Doctors victimize former Chief McCormack, Metro Toronto Police
Date: 8 Apr 1995 04:00:11 GMT
Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414
Lines: 187
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.interlog.com
Summary: I love playing with bureaCRATS don't you?
Keywords: Metro Toronto Police former chief William McCormack disgraced
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

It is with the greatest of pleasures that I present the document that 
confirms my victimization of former civil service bureacrat Chief William 
McCormack.  As promissed the Doctors have disgraced the chief in his 
retirement, and with great fan fair I accept full responsibility.

The old chief tried his best to gain favourable retirement, his 
supporters told us he would be ambassador to Ireland, others said 
Solicitor General would be his thing.  But he's now a second rate crime 
reporter and before I'm finished with him ... well have the fun is 
telling you about it.

Anyway .. enough of my glotting - enjoy the minutes of the meeting .....
---------------------> P.S.  YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST the rest is history

~Subject: Minutes of Jan.19/95 Metropolitan Toronto Police Services Board 
meeting -- Re:  Fantino et al v. Riley, Baptista and the Information and 
Privacy Commissioner/Ontario

For further information on the case of Fantino et al v. Riley et al, 
email [email-masked]; or go to:

     http://www.earth.org/~baptista
------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS AN EXTRACT FROM THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF
THE METROPOLITAN TORONTO POLICE SERVICES BOARD HELD ON
JANUARY 19, 1995
------------------------------------------------------------------------
#41.	CHIEF McCORMACK ET AL VS. RILEY, BAPTISTA AND 
        THE INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONER OF ONTARIO

The Board was in receipt of the following letter JANUARY 16, 
1995 from Susan Eng, Chair:

SUBJECT:	Chief McCormack et al vs. Riley, Baptista and the 
                Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario

RECOMMENDATION:	THAT the Board instruct the London law firm that
                Chief William McCormack be removed immediately as
                a party in the Application;

	        THAT the Board direct that no expenditures be made
                in respect of the legal and other costs of the
                Application;

	        THAT the Board communicate with the Ontario 
                Association of Police Services Board, Law Society
                of Upper Canada, or any other appropriate bodies to
                advise them of the clear legal position that the Board
                is the proper party for instituting legal process in
                order that Police Services Boards not find themselves
                inadvertently added as parties or find that their
                police service is involved in litigation of which they
                were unaware;

	        THAT the Board reaffirm its policy of supporting a
                publicly accountable and accessible police service and
                that no action will be taken to circumscribe the
                legitimate exercise of the public rights under the FOI
                legislation; and,

BACKGROUND:

On December 30, 1994 it came to the attention of the Metro 
Legal Department that the Metropolitan Toronto Police 
Services Board was named as an applicant in an application 
being brought in the Ontario Court on January 4, 1995 seeking 
an injunction against two Toronto individuals who have made 
numerous requests to various police services, under the 
Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy 
legislation (herein, the "Application").

The Application suggests that the Freedom of Information 
requests are frivolous and vexatious and that they are abusing 
the right of access under the legislation.  The Application was 
brought forward by a London, Ontario law firm acting on behalf 
of a number of Ontario Police Chiefs and Police Services 
Boards including Chief Wm. McCormack.

You will note from the attached correspondence from the 
Metro Legal Department, that the London law firm was 
notified on December 30, 1994 that the Metro Toronto Police 
Services Board has never authorized or instructed this firm to 
initiate an application on its behalf.  Metro Legal also 
questioned the status of Chief McCormack as an applicant and 
strongly urged the law firm to clarify this issue before 
proceeding.

On January 4, 1995 a hearing was held in the Ontario Court 
(General Division) in London.  The Metro Police Services 
Board's name was withdrawn from the Application; however, 
the London Law firm did not request that Chief McCormack 
withdraw as an applicant.  James Caskey of Sinkind, Cromarty, 
Ivey and Dowler corresponded with Metro Legal on January 5, 
1995 confirming that our Board was deleted as a party applicant 
(attached).

The matter was put over to February 3, 1995 to deal with issues 
related to the Court's jurisdiction to review the actions of the 
Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Legal Authority

As a result of this incident an opinion was sought from the 
Metro Legal Department with regard to the authority of the 
Chief of Police to proceed and initiate legal action without the 
authority of the Police Services Board.  The attached opinion 
provided by the Metropolitan solicitor and dated January 16, 
1995 advises that under both the FOI legislation and the Police 
Services Act, it is the Police Services Board, and not the Chief 
of Police, who has the legal authority to initiate legal 
proceedings:

   with respect to the initiation of legal proceedings by the 
   Board or the Force it is the responsibility of the Board 
   to make that decision since the Police Services Act 
   grants the power to sue to the Board.  I am not aware of 
   any authority delegated to the Chief by the Board 
   regarding the authority to sue another person or 
   organization....where the issue relates to issues arising 
   from the management of the Metropolitan Toronto 
   Police Force, it is the Board that is entitled to make 
   decisions regarding the commencement of legal 
   proceedings.

Consequently, the Board should be instructing the London law 
firm that Chief William McCormack should also be removed 
from the application before the hearing on February 3, 1995 
and advising them that no expenditure can be authorized in 
relation to the costs of the application.

The clear legal position that the Board is the proper party for 
instituting legal process should be communicated broadly to the 
legal community in order that Police Services Boards not find 
themselves inadvertently added as parties or find that their 
police service is involved in litigation of which they were 
unaware.

Policy Considerations

The FOI legislation is intended to provide public access to 
information from public institutions and is not, strictly speaking, 
a policing matter.  If there are concerns as to a potential abuse 
of the FOI process which draws unduly on our resources, the 
proper avenue is to seek legislative change so that the issue of 
full public access can be balanced against the need to protect 
privacy and prevent undue operational impact.

Any such recommendations to be made on behalf of the 
Metropolitan Toronto Police Force are made through the 
Board.  Metro Police Rule 5.7.6 states that "requests or 
recommendations by the Force for any changes in federal, 
provincial or municipal legislation shall only be made through 
the Board".  The Chief, if he feels that it is warranted, may 
report to the Board as to any difficulties he is having in the 
administration of the FOI responsibilities and his suggestion as 
to needed legislative change.

This Board has always supported the principles of broader and 
equal access to police services and public accountability and 
has recognized the need to support people who complain 
against police misconduct.  For example, the Board has adopted 
policies directed at preventing the investigation of complainants 
for the sole purpose of undermining their credibility.  It would 
be totally inconsistent to seek a court injunction to prevent 
people from exercising their rights under FOI legislation.

In light of the issues raised by this matter, it would be 
appropriate for the Board to reaffirm its policy of supporting a 
publicly accountable and accessible police service and that no 
action will be taken to circumscribe the legitimate exercise of 
the public rights under the FOI legislation or any other statute.

The Board approved the foregoing.

--
                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

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From: [email-masked] (eye WEEKLY)
Newsgroups: ont.general,tor.general,alt.usenet.kooks,eye.general
Subject: When Doctors Go Bad
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 18:49:58 -0400
Organization: Toronto's Arts Newspaper
Lines: 382
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: eye.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]

baptista@planet (Dr. Joe Baptista) wrote:

>> But Bob - the problem as I see it is that Ken has become bitter in his 
>> old age.  And that is a sad thing to see.  Great press - but in Ken 
>> there's a bit of saddness in the anger that he writes.

[email-masked] (karl mamer) responded:

>Bitter? Did you invent the word, Joe? 

Go easy on Joe. He's just miffed about a recent interview/article in Toronto 
Computes I did with ex-Doctor Tom Evans -- in which Tom said a few things Joe 
doesn't particularly like... 

For your convenience, here's the article. It's also stored at 
http://www.interlog.com/eye/Misc/Kooks/Baptista/evans.htm -- if you'd like to 
see the pretty pictures...

Ken.

P.S. I still like Joe. I agree with Tom that Joe can be very very funny and 
charming.

--- cut here ---

                           WHEN DOCTORS GO BAD

         One of Toronto's legendary net.ranters rants and raves about
                          net.ravers and ravers

                                   by
                              K.K.CAMPBELL

Just over a year ago, TC! brought you a thrill-a-minute story I wrote about 
"Doctor"Joe Baptista -- the government-irritant who was mercilessly faxing 
them through his fax-bombing setup, supposedly ringing up several $3.5million 
in paper/administrative costs. 

Since then, Baptista's partner, "Doctor" Robert Riley, has led an attack on 
another front: Freedom Of Information requests. The provincial government 
actually rewrote the FOI guidelines so that no single person could have "an 
excessive number" of FOI requests at any one time. Call it the "Doctor" clause.

Recently, five police chief from larger Ontario cities asked the Ontario 
government to permit them to ignore further requests from either Baptista or 
Riley -- a move which immediately interested the newsmedia and civil rights 
groups. The "Doctors" made the front page of the Globe and Mail.

They call themselves "The Doctors"  because Baptista says that when he uses 
the attribution, he gets better tables in restaurants. No member of the 
Doctors is a conventional doctor. (NOTE: Toronto sysadmin and devout 
Courtney Love Math Boy Ken Chasse dubbed him !Dr Baptista -- using the 
programming operator !, which means "not." Thus he's Not-Doctor Baptista. The 
term !Doctors is commonly used today.)

Baptista's height of Internet noteriety came when he teamed-up with netter Tom 
Evans ([email-masked]). This dynamic duo grated on the nerves of 
thousands in Ontario (and beyond). The !Doctors practically owned newsgroup 
ont.general for a while. In August, Baptista was voted Kook Of The Month in 
Usenet newsgroup alt.usenet.kooks .

But it all fell apart shortly thereafter. The two had a very public falling 
out in Usenet. Acting as a sort of !Doctor anti-matter, Evans mercilessly 
ridiculed Baptista into relative silence. To Ontario Usenetters, it was a 
rather surreal site. Today, Baptista rarely posts -- and when he does, Evans 
usually appears and roasts Baptista alive; in response, Baptista mumbles 
something like "We have nothing to say to you," and the thread dies.

Thus ended the reign of Ontario's first (and some think greatest) net.loon. On 
the anniversary of that TC! article, I called up Tom Evans for an interview. 
Evans is editor/publisher of a net ezine called Net.scandal -- which 
chronicles the weird and wild and wacko aspects of the net.community. Evans is 
hoping to finally get some dedicated bandwidth he can use to provide free 
accounts to "wayward kids" -- to let them create mayhem online, not on the 
streets.

                                * * * * *

KKC: I must admit, Tom... last April or so, When I first saw you posting in 
ont.general, in full !Doctor mode, I thought you were a... you know... a 
fucking asshole.

TE: [laughs] Ya, that's the way I came across. The Doctor thing never 
completely fit with me.  I didn't know anything about netiquete. And I didn't 
give a shit about it. I'm just an outlaw from nowhere, as far as they knew. 
And I acted like an asshole. I'm the first to admit it. 

KKC: What drew you to Usenet?

TE: I'd just stumbled out of the Fido world. I came to Usenet, plodding around 
in hipwaders in these newsgroups bellowing "HI!" -- a complete clueless 
newbie. But I watched what was going on, and some particular people caught my 
interest: the bigmouths! [grins] The ones causing the trouble. I could tell 
who was arguing a conservative position and who's a radical and who's just an 
idiot.

KKC: How did you get involved with the !Doctors?

TE: I was on Magic BBS one night. It uses First Class software. As I'd been on 
FidoNet, I didn't know how to parse a header to post to the newsgroups. Plus I 
was using a DOS machine that I had never used before. Since there's a chat 
feature in First Class, I saw 45 people on at midnight, I thought I'd ask 
someone for help. What name, of all those people, do I just happen to pick 
out? Robert Riley. Didn't know him from Adam. Complete coincidence.

He says. 'Sure, what's your phone number, I'll phone you up.' He does and we 
yap away, and he finally says, 'Hey, I live just down the street. Want me to 
come over and show you how to work your machine?' I shrugged, sure. Drop over. 
I didn't know he was this major gay boy yet...

So over he comes and sets my machine up with Q-Term and all the rest of it. 
Ran smoothly. After, he's sitting in the chair, and we talk, until he asks, 
'Ever hear of Joe Baptista?' I said, 'God, that's really funny that you 
mention that name because I was just busting a gut laughing today when reading 
an article about this guy in Toronto Computes!: 'The Beast That Stalks The 
Government.' I had the best fucking laugh reading that. 

Rob says, 'Oh, that's us!' What'ya mean, that's us? 'We're Doctors! We've been 
doing this for quite a while.' Doing what? 'Ohh, we have fun. And we use fax 
machines...'

So picture it: here I am, a complete clueless newbie, without ANY idea of the 
net, and meet these guys, who seem to be activists and have a beef with 
Canada. Rob gives me Joe's number and I phone the next day. We talk and swap 
addresses. Joe promises to drop over sometime and smoke a  joint. Sure enough, 
he's there the same night. And we got along _famously_. We  were_pals_. I 
supported him _completely_.

KKC: You guys must have spent some nights getting high and roaring with 
laughter at the reactions from the humorless tightass conservatives on the 
net...

TE: Oh God! I'd split my sides! Joe was one of the biggest sources of comic 
relief in my life! But remember, I am a naive kid from St Catharines who keeps 
forgetting there are often darker motives behind people's actions. I was 
completely bedazzled by these !Doctor guys who seemed to know so much. And 
they really stirred up the pot. As for all these names I kept seeing in groups 
like ont.general, howling about the horrible things the !Doctors were 
supposedly doing, to me they were just a bunch of conservative assholes in 
need of a good kicking anyway. Fuck them. 

My thing was reposting stuff I thought funny from other groups to ont.general. 
I didn't know anything about how threading works -- I'm using a First Class 
site, at tvo.org , right?

KKC: And you thought ont.general is just some local BBS group, where you post 
anything and everything...

TE: Exactly. "Here's a funny article from alt.best.of.internet ! Read this, 
gang!" Naturally, people then flamed me, saying, "Look, we can get this stuff 
by reading alt.best.of.internet ourselves, so stop reposting it to ont.general.
Well... That just FUELLED me! [laughs] It made me want to do it more! And Joe 
was saying, 'Oh, great! Just keep bugging them. Do whatever you want.' 

KKC: You starting calling yourself "Doctor Tom Evans, PR director." How did 
that happen?

TE: I proposed I be Joe's "PR manager". I mean, I got a few smarts going. I 
worked in the advertising biz for eight years. Master of misinformation. So I 
went out to Ontario newsgroups banging Joe's drum for him. And damned if I 
didn't start coming up with some fans for the guy! We were getting attention. 
Even from the media. Shift magazine phoned us up for an article and wanted to 
meet for lunch. I choose to have it in the cafeteria at Toronto General 
Hospital -- what better place for the Doctors, right? (Shift didnt do a story, 
though... I think they thought we were too "out there" for the Ontario General 
Arts Council, or whoever it is who funds them.)

KKC: It would certainly seem that since your departure from the !Doctors, 
Baptista's star (or anti-star) set...

TE: Hmmm. I think the !Doctors that to themselves. And I warned Joe about it. 
Fun is fun, but I'm a man of integrity. I won't call in the cops to  harass 
people. I began to see that darker nature in him, threatening people on a 
personal level. Getting them in trouble in real life. I said, "Joe, that's 
just malicious." I'm not interested in destroying things or people. I'm 
interested in ridiculing the piss outta someone in Usenet, and cause them so 
much grief they never want to login again, but I'm _not_ interested in getting 
them into legal trouble with the police or disrupting their personal lives or 
getting them fired, or_anything_ like that. I don't want to take this thing 
out of cyberspace. 

And I don't want the police at _my_ door. I made it clear that if Joe was 
going to cause me real life grief, then I couldn't have anything to do with 
the !Doctors. 

Of course, the reason _Joe wanted_ to use my name and phone number as PR man 
at the bottom of his faxes and net posts was because he had to move back into 
his Mom's house. Joe is Portuguese. With some Latin men, the most important 
person in their lives is "Mom." The one thing you do not do is shame your 
mother in any way or you go straight to hell. 

Problem is: what Joe loves _most_ in life is seeing the _reaction_ to what he 
does. For him to do a fax spam, and for there not to be a contact number for 
him, is just completely pointless. What's the point if you can't hear the 
complaints?

KKC: Hear the echo...

TE: Ya, hear the echo. Joe tried a few fax-spams with no number at the bottom 
-- because he couldn't use _Mom's_ number, and his _own_ phone was cut for 
owing 800 beans to Ma Bell. So he wanted to start adding my number, since I'm 
the "PR guy."

I said, "Joe, I'm- I'm- I'm not sure. I don't THINK so... I don't know if I 
would end up liking that." Because I'm a low-profile guy. I'm an eccentric 
that doesn't want to be in the public eye. Unless it's on my own terms [like 
the net]. I don't want someone else's publicity dogging me around. And I do 
NOT want The Steam at my front door. But I agreed to give it a shot and see. 

Well, first fax-net press release he used me on was the [member of 
provincial parliament Donald] Cousens article. Joe had some phone spat with 
Cousen's secretary. He issued a "press release" calling her a human larvae.

KKC: That's the one where he says she's in heat...

TE: Ya, that she acted like she was a 'bitch in heat.'

KKC: And that's the one that got him elected KOTM.

TE: Right! And damned if that isn't the first one with my name and phone 
number on the bottom as the PR Director! So MPP Cousens and 15 other people -- 
including the Globe and Mail -- phoned me! I sure didn't like the feedback 
from that. Cousen's secretary herself even called me, insisting this was 
hate mongering, subject to Canada's anti-hate laws. I got scared. That's my 
bottom line: I don't like cops, I don't like jail, I've never been in jail, 
and I'm never gonna go. So I replied I had nothing to do with it. Naturally, 
she asked why my name was on the bottom.

I said: "Welllll, I'm the PR company..."

She said: "Then I suggest your _company_ finds out exactly who the heck you 
are PRing."

I replied: "Good point. I will. Thank you very much for calling."

I phoned Joe immediately and said, "OK, that's the end of that. I'll let this 
one fly, you had fun with Cousens, fine. I don't want my name on any more." 
And, indeed, Joe stopped -- _for the moment._

KKC: Until after the Doctor-Q. The trigger of your split... [NOTE: The 
"Doctor-Q" was a barbeque bash held last summer at Evans' downtown Toronto 
house. It was attended by Homolka-trial-ban-breaker Gordon Domm, the net's own 
Homolka-rumor-monger "Abdul" ([email-masked]) and various other personages. It 
was a mellow substance-drenched event.]

TE: Right. I did all the work for that party. I paid $800 to get that beer and 
food and got $725 back. In retrospect, it's real lucky that was ALL I lost. My 
fault, though. I don't blame anyone else for that. 

But then Joe starts bugging me for money from it, figuring I pocketed a 
profit! And then he starts demanding money, and later an "accounting." He 
didn't lift a finger for the bash. He didn't stay to clean up. He didn't do a 
frigging thing. He's a lazy pig. He's a slug. He's a complete slug. 

His excuse, of course, for being a slug is [in whining Baptista impersonation] 
"Well, I have this condition, I was hit over the head, and I can't remember 
anything..."

KKC: He told me that once. _Does_ he have a "memory condition?"

TE: Well... He _did_ get beat up by a landlord. But let me tell you, he sure 
knows how to remember if you owe him ten bucks from three months ago.

KKC: He called me once saying he thought it was Monday -- it was
Friday.

TE: I think it all started as kind of a joke. But I also think people have the 
capacity to programme themselves that they actually _are_ brain damaged if 
they work hard enough at work.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong. But there's no big scar on his head. Not that I've 
seen. As I understand it, he just got a couple of good swats in the head from 
his landlord. No one's ever told me about "The tragic day Joe had to go to 
intensive care." I mean, the kind of memory loss we're talking about here 
suggests, to me, severe head trauma.

KKC: But "brain damage" aside, you were impressed with !Dr Joe's ability to 
mercilessly irritate civil servants.

TE: Oh yeah. He WAS a chartered accountant, remember. That's the reason he 
knows how to get at government. First thing you learn as an accountant is that 
paper can cost a company more than anything else. The administration. And 
that's exactly his attack. Some people think Joe is perceptive and remarkable 
and all that, Joe is just doing what an accountant does -- sends papers to 
places he knows have to file and respond.

KKC: Bob Allisat seems to have taken up Baptista's mantle as Toronto's 
reigning net.kook. How did he fit into the !Doctors.

TE: Bob was never a full Doctor, because he never really liked or trusted Joe. 
When I first saw him, Bob was on all the First Class BBSs. I saw him at Magic, 
ranting about Magic sysadmin "Merlin," how  his stuff was being censored... or 
calling Matrix administrator child molesters or whatever. It was vicious 
stuff. Lamer stuff. But Bob was a _true_ ranter and a raver. 

I worked to pull all these guys together because _I love ranters_. I love 
them! [laughs] They're my entertainment! I brought Bob into the circle. Here I 
am the Net.Scandal PR man, and all these guys fit perfect into the 
net.scandal. I aimed to compile rant talent and drum up such a stink that 
something entertaining had to come of it! So I got Allisat on the blower and 
said, "We gotta meet, Bob! I like what you've got to say." 

Bob CAN write. If he got rid of his self-centred attitude -- and the whiney 
"Ohhhh, everyone is picking on me" -- he'd be a star.  Another thing about Bob 
is that he never resorts to stupid threats -- like physical violence. Not like 
stupid people, like this "Alexmac" asshole at Internex, who threatened to have 
Bob's knees broken. People who don't have a higher education resort to 
violence. 

But Bob's whole "Captain Parkdale" thing makes me laugh -- he hasn't lived in 
Parkdale that long. And anyway, the real energy in Parkdale right now isn't 
the sad cases living on welfare, it's the booming artist community living at 
Liberty and Atlantic and King St. It's the highest concentration of art in the 
city. I used to live at King and Dufferin and everybody in there is a cracker 
artist of some sort. It's booming. So I told him: 'THIS is the what the new 
Parkdale is, not this idea you have for connecting all the nuts at 999 Queen.'

[NOTE: Right around this time, someone from Allisat's system uploaded an 
anonymous post about a Portuguese community priest -- calling the priest a 
"Nazi, thief, child molester," etc. Baptista saw it and faxed it out to 
everyone, adding Tom Evans' home phone number on the bottom, implying Evans 
wrote it. Evans emphatically denies having anything to do with it.]

KKC: Didn't Allisat delete you from his system? Censor you?

TE: Yes, he did. Bob's biggest fear is being sued. He got rid of me at psc.org 
because he feared a big lawsuit was coming over the Portuguese priest thing. 
And at the same time, UUNet Canada had cut off Baptista's system. It's my 
opinion that Allisat put two and two together and figured I was going to get 
SO vocal over both events that he would get sued. So he killed me.

Joe's putting my name on the bottom of that Portuguese priest story was as 
dirty as you can get. He sent it out to everyone in the friggin Portuguese 
world. I sure got lots of calls from Portuguese people.

People had long been warning me: you are NEVER going to get government/private 
sponsorship for your idea of putting rebellious youth on the net if you have 
Baptista in your ranks. "You're not going to get it." They were right. It 
would never happen.

KKC: Two other !Doctors -- Rob Riley and Bruce Lloyd -- tried to convince the 
police to raid and shut down Interlog Internet Services last September. It was 
personal revenge against Interlog owner Matt Harrop ([email-masked]), 
but they fooled CITY TV into thinking they were "caring citizens worried about 
child porn." Turned out they uploaded tons of vile material themselves.

TE: Exactly. And that's the whole thing with the !Doctors. There's an 'honor 
among thieves' code in cyberspace that cannot be broken. They broke it. And 
that's why Joe and Rob are not welcome in my home anymore. They don't have 
that honor, don't even understand what it is. I've told them that if they 
could distinguish between friends and enemies, they'd be at the top of the 
charts. The real enemy isn't the grunt in the trench, like say [Toronto 
UNIX guru] Jim Mercer; the enemy is the overblown, overpayed, overstuffed, 
over-egoed politician.

KKC: So you think "The Doctors" are gone for good?

TE: Yes and no. Joe has almost no support from anyone in the net.community at 
all anymore. But they aren't gone. This freedom of information thing with the 
Ontario governmenthas a lot of play in it. The !Doctors have simply regrouped 
and gone quiet.  That's partly why Joe's just shut his fat little mouth.

KKC: Many people call you a "prankster." You call it irritainment, I believe.

TE: Ya, I do. And it's so easy. It doesn't have to involve technical tricks, 
just knowing human nature.

For instance, I know Joe's biggest fear, almost obsessive worry, is 
that his stuff is being cancelled. See, Joe's only weapon in life is Usenet. 
The threat that his words are going to be canceled is paramount. So I thought, 
dandy, I'm going to fan those flames. I used along dead account of mine at 
[Ken Chasse's] Sonic Interzone to start the rumor, saying, "Goodness, I 
can't see posts from Joe anywhere!" And the Doctors freaked!

It's like fishing. And all these little tricks we try to write about in Net 
Scandal. Sometimes you get bites and nibbles. But you are always hoping you 
get the hook right down the throat so you can really haul on them. [laughs] 

                                    -30-

Xref: utcsri ont.general:28756
Path: utcsri!utnut!torn!hookup!cunews!tvo!Tom_Evans
From: [email-masked] (Tom Evans)
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Newsgroups: ont.general
Distribution: world
Subject: !dr. jojo's Psychotic Hotline - Fwd:  A response to the pro-ban forces
Date: 16 May 1995 16:24:13 GMT
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Organization: From TVOntario's Public BBS
Lines: 112

From !dr.jojo's psychotic hotline
Another Rat Report from Planet Communications
(more ammo for the 14 Division files)
--------

>                                         Wednesday May 10th, 1995
> Mr. Paul Lamek, Treasurer
> Law Society of Upper Canada
> Toronto, Ontario
> 
> BY FAX: 416.947.5967
> 
> Hi Paul:
> 
> RE:     The Law Societies association with political extremists
>         who promote and distribute sexual information, break the
>         Homolka/Bernardo ban and the propagation of propaganda on
>         myself using Law Society of Upper Canada's resources.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>         For the last year I have been monitoring communications
> originating from your organization.  These communcations have been
> forwarded to me without my permission from a system listed on the
> internet as reptiles.org.  This system I understand is administered by
> a Mr. Jim Mercer, who is also your Educational Systems Manager.
>         The system reptiles.org is directly connected to the internet via
> the law societies (LSUC) computer systems.  I forwarded to your attention
> confirmation of this in a prior fax message today.  I provided you with a
> traceroute report and a site registration for reptiles.org
> which clearly
> demonstrate the offending system is directly connected via LSUC.
>         I have also taken the liberty, of forwarding to your attention
> copies of email communications which confirm the exploitation of LSUC
> resources - supporting my prior claims.  These seven email messages,
> listed below, have also been forwarded via email to Chris Pentleton
> ([email-masked]) system administrator for the Metropolitan Toronto
> Police and Alan Treleaven ([email-masked]) system administrator
> and Director of Education at LSUC.
> 
>          SIZE DATE   TIME  MESSAGE I.D.   PARTICULARS
>         20410 Apr 15 03:49 0s02bG-000DIaa Propaganda on myself
>         30047 Apr 15 08:25 0s06uc-000DGpa Sex guide to the internet
>          2987 Apr 15 22:55 0s0KUf-000DJAa More propaganda on myself
>          3703 Apr 19 05:08 0s1Vkp-000DJCa Homolka/Teale/Bernardo stuff
>          4917 Apr 30 17:00 0s5g6S-000DJha more stuff on Bernardo
>          4823 May  5 00:42 0s7FDx-000DJcC some more stuff on Bernardo
>          1594 May  7 13:16 0s89wp-000DK7a and more stuff on Bernardo
> 
> [Image]         The documents listed above were posted by a
>         Mr. Thomas Evans who is known to myself and the police.
> His login I.D. is [email-masked].  He is
> also known as Major Tom, Dr. Thomas Evans, and many other
> assorted aliases on the internet.  A picture of Major Tom
> is provided for your amusement and entertainment.
> 
>         Major Tom has been instrumental in breaking the Homolka ban, and
> on various occasions has assisted me in my ban breaking initiatives.
> It's good to see that he is carrying on in this practice.  However, it is
> my opinion that LSUC should not be associated with these activities.
> Since LSUC supports the reptiles.org connection via it's facilities, I
> would like to ask you what arrangements exist that justify this
> association.
>         Furthermore, it is understandable that the law society and it's
> members may have sexual interests.  However, it is difficult for me to
> accept that in an age of fiscal restraint the law society would finance
> and support the distribution of filth and pornography.  I personally
> support such distribution, but find it questionable when the same is
> authorized by a legal society of some reputation.
>         I am also interested in your justification of this electronic
> trade in sex via LSUC facilities.
>         I also bring to your attention the fact that some of these
> communications directly reference myself.  Some email contains
> slanderous statements against my good person.  In anticipation of a
> potential lawsuit I must advise that your participation and support
> of these activities may justify adding the law society as a party to the
> action, if any.
>         I do not anticipate a lawsuit at this time, however I would
> welcome your assessment of LSUC's liability in this.
> 
> Kindest Regards

> 
> Joe Baptista
> 
> cc:     Dr. Robert Riley
>         Chief - Metro Toronto Police

>Enjoy
>Joe Baptista

>+---------------oOO--(
)--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
> Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
> [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
>+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

*------------------------<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------------------*
  "Look at that Miss Jesus, get herrr!" "But can she do it in heels???       

            [email-masked]   Editor NET.SCANDAL    [email-masked]  
            -------------<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>-------------
      Feel free to join the list at any time by sending the command
     SUBSCRIBE in the body of a message to [email-masked]
*------------------------<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------------------*

From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!noc.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!wire!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.id.net!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!nether.net!baptista Sun Sep 24 07:01:15 1995
Xref: elastic can.general:9282 can.legal:1605 can.politics:8217 earth.general:1438 ont.general:8619 ont.singles:1242 soc.culture.canada:1374 soc.culture.portuguese:31 talk.bizarre:5206 tor.general:8810
Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!noc.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!wire!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.id.net!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!nether.net!baptista
From: [email-masked] ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.portuguese,soc.culture.canada,alt.sex,alt.wired,can.politics,alt.censorship,alt.politics.media,tor.general,can.general,bc.general,ab.general,can.legal,earth.general,ont.singles,ont.general,alt.recovery,talk.bizarre
Subject: Lawyers certify Dr. Baptista not crazy
Date: 20 Sep 1995 20:25:08 GMT
Organization: The light of the moon
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nether.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

The London Free Press
Section B - Page 1
Monday. September 18, 1995

Section Title:	LIBEL
Title:		Fantino's lawyer attacks coutersuit
Sub-Title:	Joe Baptista calls himself `Dr.' and `Internet god' in 
the $1.5 million claim against the police chief.

By Eva Janssen
Free Press Reporter
-------------------
The lawyers for London police Chief Julian Fantino, who is suing a 
Toronto man for allegedly libelling him through computer messages, is 
expected to apply to have the man's statement of defence and counterclaim 
thrown out of court.

Rene Gasparotto, who represents Fantino, said the legal documents filed 
by Joe Baptista, a self-described harasser of police and critic of 
government, contained offensive material and should be declared invalid 
in a Toronto court, where the case will be heard.

"It's an abuse of process," he said in an interview.

Fantino is suing Baptista for $1.5 million in compensation for damages to 
his reputation resulting from what he calls "maliciously false and 
defamatory" remarks about him spread via computer between February and 
mid-July.

COUNTERCLIAM: Last week, Baptista responded by submitting a statement of 
defense and counterclaim for $1.5 million in compensation for libel and 
"malicious falsehood."

He also called for an interim and final injunction restraining Fantino 
from communicating with anyone about him.  Baptista claimed Fantino has 
made "wild, insane and malicious accusations" against him and proposed 
the civil action be tried before a jury in London.

Gasparotto said he has never seen a similar statement of defence, in 
which Baptista claims he is an "Internet god" and "at war with the 
Canadian government" since April, 1993.

Baptista, who refers to himself in the statement of defence as "Dr.," 
says a document in Fantino's statement originated from the 
"ExtraTerrestrial Archives (ETA)."

He also claims the courts have no jurisdiction in the action but pleads 
he has "no malevolence or spite" toward Fantino.

Gasparotto said he doubts Baptista is mentally unfit, despite his wild 
statements.

A LITTLE WEIRD: "He may be a little weird, but he's not crazy," he said.  
"I think he's just putting on a show."

The libel action, possibly one of the first in Ontario involving computer 
messages, could be resolved within a month if Baptista's documents are 
dismissed.

However, Gasparotto said the judge will likely give Baptista another 
opportunity to file a proper statement of defence and counterclaim rather 
than pass judgement immediately.

If that happens, Gasparotto said he will file for an interim injunction 
to prevent Baptista from referring to Fantino in electronic communications.

Baptista could not be reached for comment, although he said earlier he 
refuses to be bullied.

Baptista is no stranger to London police.  He and a friend, Robert Riley, 
are accused by several police departments of making "frivolous and 
vexatious" requests for information under Ontario's freedom of 
information and protection of privacy law, including requests for 
officers' food and beverage receipts.

Riley and Baptista were subjects of a provincial inquiry into the 
freedom-of-information law last month.  A ruling is expected in October.
--END

From elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!noc.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.interlog.com!baptista Sun Sep 24 07:32:15 1995
Xref: elastic can.motss:312 ont.general:8111 soc.motss:69
Path: elastic!jaywon.pci.on.ca!noc.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.interlog.com!baptista
From: [email-masked] (Dr. Robert Riley)
Newsgroups: can.motss,soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.pedophilia,ont.general,alt.law-enforcement,alt.law-enforcement.london-ontario,alt.law-enforcement.london_ontario
Subject: Egg on the face of Project Guardian (From Xtra - Sep 15/95)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 19:24:06 GMT
Organization: Centres for Studies in Governmental Ineptness
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: baptista.interlog.com
To: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

(Reprinted without permission)

From:
Xtra (Toronto's Lesbian and Gay Biweekly)
491 Church Street, 2nd Floor
Toronto, Ontario  M4Y 2C6
Telephone: 416-925-6665
Facsimile:  416-925-6503

September 15, 1995
---------------------------------------------------

EGG ON THE FACE OF PROJECT GUARDIAN
By Joseph Couture

Yet another cornerstone of Project Guardian has 
collapsed.

The two men who constituted what London police 
called "Canada's largest kiddie porn ring" are not 
paedophiles, a judge has ruled.  And both men have 
had their jail sentences dramatically slashed.

Gary Gramlick and Edward Jewell had their 
sentences cut in half earlier this summer by the 
Ontario Court of Appeals.

Gramlick and Jewell were the first two men arrested 
in the sex busts that would eventually lead to the 
formation of the controversial London police probe 
called Project Guardian, and the arrest of 60 men.

"In my opinion," writes Justice J.A. Finlayson, "the 
totality of the sentences imposed by the trial judge 
on each appellant is disproportionate to the offences 
committed and they should be reduced 
substantially."

Finlayson wrote the unanimous decision on behalf of 
a three-member panel.

Gramlick's sentence was cut to five years from the 
original 10.  Jewell's was reduced to seven from the 
original 15 years.

Finlayson concluded:  "The appellant Gramlick is 
not a paedophile and is not considered a danger to 
young persons in the sense of committing sexual acts 
upon them."

"The appellant Jewell has been diagnosed as a 
homosexual hebophile, rather than a paedophile.  
This means his sexual preference is for mid-
adolescent boys."

(The age of consent for vaginal and oral sex is 14; it 
is 18 for anal sex, but the differing ages have been 
declared unconstitutional by two Ontario courts.  
Both rulings are being appealed by the state.)

Both men also had orders overturned that required 
them to serve one-half of their sentences before 
being eligible for parole.

Also eliminated were lifetime bans that prohibited 
the two from public parks or other places where 
persons under 18 may be found.  Gramlick will 
continue to be banned from occupations which put 
him in positions of authority over young persons.

NOTE:  You can email London Police Chief Julian Fantino at:
       [email-masked]

-----EOF

From elastic!exorcist!lethe!geac!reptiles.org!io.org!news.interlog.com!gold!baptista Sat Sep 30 22:22:26 1995
Xref: elastic can.general:9795 can.legal:1794 can.politics:8801 earth.general:1606 ont.general:9061 ont.singles:1349 soc.culture.canada:1516 soc.culture.portuguese:48 talk.bizarre:5587 tor.general:9291
Path: elastic!exorcist!lethe!geac!reptiles.org!io.org!news.interlog.com!gold!baptista
From: [email-masked] (Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.joe-baptista,alt.law-enforcement,soc.culture.portuguese,soc.culture.canada,alt.sex,alt.wired,can.politics,alt.censorship,alt.politics.media,tor.general,can.general,bc.general,ab.general,can.legal,earth.general,ont.singles,ont.general,alt.recovery,talk.bizarre
Subject: POLICE ANUS DEFENDS FARTING
Date: 26 Sep 1995 11:00:18 GMT
Organization: InterLog Internet Services
Lines: 231
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gold.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Thursday, September 21, 1995

Mr. Renato M. Gasparotto
Siskind, Cromarty, Ivey & Dowler
680 Waterloo Street
London, Ontario  N6A 3V8

FAX (519)672-6068

Greetings and felicitations:

Re:	Fantino (Chief to the London Police Services Board) v. Baptista

As director of this production I would like to welcome you to the cast.  
As you know, the court action initiated by your client, Chief Julio 
Fantino of the London Police against my good person is viewed by many 
world wide as making Internet history.  Unfortunately I anticipate the 
matter will be but a wee fart in the anals of history.

Before I proceed to discuss my interest in this court action, I would 
like to point out a few of your short comings.  I respectfully submit to 
you that your profession could be better served.  You are a disappointment.

Mr. Gasparotto, would it be too much to ask of you, that if you should 
have objections to submissions made by me to court, it would be more 
appropriate that you forward your objections to myself before you go 
bouncing off to the London papers with your attacks on my counterclaim 
and character.

Rule 26 of the Rules of Civil Procedure allow for the amendment of 
pleadings.  According to statements made by you to the London Free Press 
this September 18th, 1995 you found my pleadings an abuse of process and 
that you wish to have my statement of defense and counterclaim `thrown 
out of court.  Does it have anything to do with my calling your client 
Chief Julio Fantino a criminal?

As Chief Fantinos Inquisitor, I am obligated by professional conduct not 
to offend the subject of an inquisition.  So you can tell the little 
darling everythings going to be O.K.  Please advise me by correspondence 
of what exactly you find objectionable and I shall consider an amendment 
- provided your objections are reasonable.

I also want you to provide me with a written apologia concerning 
objectionable references made by you.  In the interview you gave to 
London Free Press Reporter Eva Janssen, you said He may be a little 
weird, but hes not crazy, I think hes just putting on a show in reference 
to myself.

I appreciate your defense of my sanity, but I do not think youre 
qualified for that sort of thing.  I do not think we have ever met.  
Maybe I fucked you once in passing, and if so I anticipate you enjoyed it 
- but thats irrelevant.  Having sex with me does not make you an expert 
on me.

So to put it bluntly, kindly stop making personal references to me as if 
your an authority.

If you would like to reference an authority on me, you may wish to 
contact the late Dr. Thomas Evans.  Hes very vocal on my greatness and I 
anticipate the both of you can have a good time at it.  Hes cheap to talk 
too, just feed him a pizza and hell sing like a swallow.  If you give him 
a quarter oz. of marijuana youll get his legs up in the air faster then 
you can scream astro glide.  You can reach him at (416) 703-0156 - good luck!

With respect to your client Chief of Police Julian Fantino, I would like 
to put you on notice I intend to file a motion asking for an injunction 
restraining our little darling from communicating with anyone about me.

I am sure you can appreciate my concern.  Chief Fantino, regardless of 
any criminal wrong doing, is still a respected bureaucrat.  Any 
statements made by him about me will be taken seriously.  As a public 
official Chief Fantino has no right to use his office as a means of 
saving himself from inquisition and criminal wrong doing while slandering 
my name in the process.

Furthermore, I am concerned that as a police chief, your client has and 
may use his office maliciously against me.  I will therefore ask that the 
restraining order include restrictions against any activity respecting my 
person by Julio Fantino in his capacity as chief of police in London.

I am willing to abstain from the motion if you provide me with an 
undertaking that your client will abstain from uttering any further 
verbal diarrhea to the press on myself, and a commitment that he will 
immediately withdraw himself in his capacity as chief of police in any 
police or government matter involving the same.

Furthermore, if Chief Julio Fantino apologizes for the slanderous and 
libelous statements made by him to the press, I will drop my 
counterclaim.  I will provide you with an offer to settle which will 
include these provisions.

With respect, your intent to obtain a restraining order on myself 
preventing me from using communication technology to talk about our 
little darling, is altogether an impossible request to a court that has 
no jurisdiction in the area.  It would also be a confusing ordeal, since 
usenet communication are so easily forged, and considering the fact that 
I am such a popular Internet personality - hated and loved by many 
worldwide, the net result would be a mess of fraudulent news postings, 
all slandering our little darling and possibly looking as if they 
originate from me.  That is exactly what Fantino is trying to avoid.

May I suggest instead that we proceed immediately to trial.  I think this 
approach would be mutually beneficial.

In a letter published in the London Free Press on August 29th, 1995 from 
Bruce K. Brown, Director of Legal Services for the London Police Force,  
he said Baptista may be insolvent (as he has indicated to the press), but 
he evidently has at least some assets; to wit; a computer, a modem, and a 
fax machine ...  In fact I have non of these things and can assure you I 
am judgment proof.  To connect to the Internet, all one needs is access, 
and that is something no court can have access to.

So you see Mr. Gasparotto, a restraining order is understandable, from a 
position of limiting liability and damage, but I anticipate the reverse 
will be true and it would only encourage individuals on the Internet to 
commit mischief.  A practice I anticipate Chief Julio Fantino and the 
Government of Ontario wish to avoid.

Under the circumstances please advise me if it is your intention to 
proceed with the order.

I also suggest you amend your statement of claim.  In sections 13 and 14 
of my statement of defence and counterclaim I have denied being the 
author of the documents attached to your statement of claim as schedules 
A and B.  You may wish to amend your documents to reflect this.  At this 
time, I would like you to forward to me your original copy of the email 
communication referenced in your statement of claim as schedule A.  
Please forward the document in its original electronic form with all 
headers intact.  I can accept the document on a Macintosh or DOS 3.5 high 
density disk, but would prefer the document in UNIX format with original 
time stamps intact.  If this can not be done, please advise and provide 
reasons why.  Also, please forward a copy to the court and I ask that it 
be sealed by the court in order to avoid any possible tampering.  Please 
provide details how this email was obtained.

According to schedule A of your statement of claim the message text reads 
Yes dear Robert .. Chief Fantino is a pig and a really big asshole - if 
you know what I mean.  Ill soon have a picture of the man on our web so, 
all can look at his primitive features.  Evolution is not for everyone 
you know dear Robert.

From this communication your client, Julio Fantino, interpreted the same 
to mean that it referred to him as porcine, greedy, dirty, an annoying 
person, an unpleasant person, a slovenly person, a slob, a despicable 
person, a Neanderthal, primitive, unintelligent, aesthetically 
challenged, intellectually challenged, and prehistoric.

Please advise chief Julio Fantino that I do not consider him a pig or an 
asshole, or any of the things he feels the message said he is.  That sort 
of language is rude.  In my opinion Chief Julio Fantino is an infantile 
imbecile much like any other member of the human race I have had the 
pleasure of coming in contact with.  Please be assured, I dont 
discriminate - humanity is well stocked with idiots and bless your gods 
for that.

Now that you have received my defence and pleadings are closed, I would 
like to ask that we proceed to dismiss examinations for discovery.  This 
will allow us to immediately proceed to trial pending a discovery of 
documents.  I have the evidence necessary to proceed against Chief Julio 
Fantino and anticipate you are in the same position.  If this is not the 
case, please advise.

If you must have an examination, I ask that the same be held in Toronto 
and that you also pay for my part in the examination.  As you know, I am 
economically disadvantaged and can not afford the exorbitant costs 
associated with an examination process.  You may wish to consider 
reducing the costs of examination by means of written questions and 
answers in accordance with rule 31.02(1).

In my capacity as Inquisitor to Julio Fantino, I only have a few 
questions to ask him.  Some questions have already been asked of him, and 
some have not.  I am submitting these questions to you in anticipation of 
an answer.  Chief Fantino has refused to respond so far;

1. What is the relationship between Julio Fantino and Al Palladini;
 
2. What is the relationship between their association and a dance palace 
on or near highway 7 called Pavarotti (or something like that - Im not 
too sure of the name - cant remember right now, but its a well know 
famous place where lots of cocaine gets passed about);
 
3. How do all of these associations relate to cocaine?

Questions not yet presented to Julio Fantino are what is the relationship 
between Julio Fantino, Roy McMurtry, the benchers of the Law Society of 
Upper Canada, and steam baths?

I want to know what he has to say on the above, I can wait to ask this at 
trial but would appreciate a response now.

I will also ask you now to provide Julio Fantinos income tax records for 
the last five years, including current financial statements.  If you 
wish, I can provide you with a statement of my financial position, 
fortunately no income tax returns are available.  As you can appreciate 
since I am at war with government, it would be silly to pay to support 
the very thing I am here to destroy.

And prior to my act of war, I refused taxation since as a model citizen 
it would be altogether hypocritical to support something I condemn.

I also anticipate I will be making a motion to the court to make 
arrangements to overcome my disability at trial.  We will deal with that 
later.

While were at it, I would also like a complete list of all legal actions 
initiated against and by Julio Fantino.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your earliest response.

Regards,
 
Dr. Joe Baptista
	
JLB/ns

cc: Court File 20942 and everyone else - Cheers.

--
[email-masked] ------=------  http://www.vrx.net/mrclean
To SUBSCRIBE to the list send email to [email-masked]
Invitations Interview and Irritainment address [email-masked]

From elastic!exorcist!lethe!geac!reptiles.org!io.org!news.interlog.com!gold!baptista Sat Sep 30 22:23:14 1995
Xref: elastic can.general:9794 can.legal:1793 can.politics:8800 earth.general:1605 ont.general:9060 ont.singles:1348 soc.culture.canada:1514 soc.culture.portuguese:47 talk.bizarre:5585 tor.general:9289
Path: elastic!exorcist!lethe!geac!reptiles.org!io.org!news.interlog.com!gold!baptista
From: [email-masked] (Joe Baptista)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.joe-baptista,alt.law-enforcement,soc.culture.portuguese,soc.culture.canada,alt.sex,alt.wired,can.politics,alt.censorship,alt.politics.media,tor.general,can.general,bc.general,ab.general,can.legal,earth.general,ont.singles,ont.general,alt.recovery,talk.bizarre
Subject: LETTER BOMBS FORWARD TO COURT
Followup-To: alt.fan.joe-baptista,alt.law-enforcement,soc.culture.portuguese,soc.culture.canada,alt.sex,alt.wired,can.politics,alt.censorship,alt.politics.media,tor.general,can.general,bc.general,ab.general,can.legal,earth.general,ont.singles,ont.general,alt.recovery,talk.bizarre
Date: 26 Sep 1995 15:07:33 GMT
Organization: InterLog Internet Services
Lines: 41
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gold.interlog.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Tuesday, September 25, 1995

Mrs. Connie Holmes, Registrar
Ontario Court (General Division)
80 Dundas Street
London, Ontario  N6A 1E7

Dear Mrs. Holmes:

RE:	Fantino v. Baptista, court file no. 20942 and letter bomb - enclosed

Since the start of this legal action I received an e-mail communication 
warning me about potential mail hazards.  I did not take this very 
seriously until I began getting unsolicited mail, mainly with reference 
to this court action.

I have no interest in this mail or the potential hazard represented.  
However, I feel these communications will benefit my case against Chief 
Julio Fantino and will be forwarding the same to the court.  I ask that 
you seal the documents until I require them at trial.  If you can - 
please have them x-rayed.  I do not have the necessary facilities for this.

I am also including a copy of a letter to chief Julio Fantinos solicitor 
and ask that it be placed in the court file.

Sincerely,
Dr. Joe Baptista

                     ,,,       "ask not what you can do for your country,
                    (o o)       ask what your country has done for you."
+---------------oOO--( )--OOo-----------------------------------------------+
 Dr. Joe Baptista                 Planet Communications & Computing Facility
 [email-masked]        http://www.earth.org/~baptista/
+---------------oOO-------OOo-----------------------------------------------+

From [email-masked] Sun Feb 11 10:20:50 1996
Xref: elastic can.legal:6310 can.politics:44536 ont.general:27328
Path: elastic!exorcist!lethe!geac!onramp.ca!grumpy.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!murphy.servtech.com!jeffm1.tor.servtech.com!riley
From: [email-masked] (Dr. Robert Riley)
Newsgroups: can.legal,ont.general,can.politics,alt.law-enforcement,alt.law-enforcement.london-ontario
Subject: Riley et al v. Fantino et al (Notice of Application for Judicial Review)
Date: 6 Feb 1996 22:41:22 GMT
Organization: ServiceTech, Inc.
Lines: 233
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jeffm1.tor.servtech.com
Summary: This Notice of Application for Judicial Review has been filed in response to the Information and Privacy Commissioner/Ontario Order No.M-618
Keywords: Riley, Fantino, Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario, Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Acts
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

If you can assist with money, equipment or legal instruction, please 
contact [email-masked]

If you would like to read the Order #M-618, issued by the Information and 
Privacy Commissioner/Ontario, it is available under the appropriate 
section via www.gov.on.ca

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
						COURT FILE NO. 59/96
		ONTARIO COURT OF JUSTICE (GENERAL DIVISION)

BETWEEN:
			ROBERT RILEY
							Applicant

			-and-

		CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO and the LONDON POLICE BOARD,
		CHIEF JAMES C. ADKIN and the WINDSOR POLICE SERVICES
			BOARD, CHIEF MURRAY K. MCMASTER and the
			SARNIA POLICE SERVICES BOARD

							Respondents

		NOTICE OF APPLICATION FOR JUDICIAL REVIEW

TO THE RESPONDENT(S)

	A LEGAL PROCEEDING HAS BEEN COMMENCED by the Applicant.  The 
claim made by the Applicant appears on the following page.

	THIS APPLICATION for judicial review will come for a hearing 
before the Divisional Court on a date to be fixed by the Registrar at the 
place of hearing requested by the Applicant.  The Applicant requests that 
this application be heard at 130 Queen Street West, Toronto.

	IF YOU WISH TO OPPOSE THIS APPLICATION, you or an Ontario lawyer 
acting for you must forthwith prepare a notice of appearance in Form 38C 
prescribed by the Rules of Civil Procedure, serve it on the Applicant's 
lawyer or, where the Applicant does not have a lawyer, serve it on the 
Applicant, and file it, with proof of service, in this court office, and 
you or your lawyer must appear at the hearing.

	IF YOU WISH TO PRESENT AFFIDAVIT OR OTHER DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE TO 
THE COURT OR TO EXAMINE OR CROSS-EXAMINE WITNESSES ON THE APPLICATION, 
you or your lawyer must, in addition to serving your notice of 
appearance, serve a copy of the evidence on the Applicant's lawyer or, 
where the Applicant does not have a lawyer, serve it on the Applicant, 
and file it, with proof of service, in the court office where the 
application is to be heard as soon as possible, but not later than 2 p.m. 
on the day before the hearing.

	IF YOU FAIL TO APPEAR AT THE HEARING, JUDGMENT MAY BE GIVEN IN 
YOUR ABSENCE AND WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE TO YOU.

	IF YOU WISH to defent this proceeding but are unable to pay legal 
fees, legal aid may be available to you by contacting a local LEGAL AID 
OFFICE.

Date:  January 22, 1996		Issued by:	Donna Greson
						Local Registrar

				Address of court office:
				ONTARIO COURT OF JUSTICE
				COUR DE JUSTICE DE L'ONTARIO
				DIVISIONAL COURT/COUR DIVISIONNAIRE
				OSGOODE HALL
				130 QUEEN STREET WEST/130, RUE QUEEN OUEST
				TORONTO, ONTARIO   M5H 2N5

TO:

ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ONTARIO
720 Bay Street
Toronto, Ontario

AND TO:

CHIEF JULIAN FANTINO
and the LONDON POLICE BOARD
601 Dundas Street
London, Ontario
N6B 1X1

AND TO:

CHIEF JAMES C. ADKIN
and the WINDSOR POLICE SERVICES BOARD
445 City Hall Square West
Windsor, Ontario
N9A 6J5

AND TO:

CHIEF MURRAY K. MCMASTER
and the SARNIA POLICE SERVICES BOARD
555 North Christina Street
Sarnia, Ontario
N7T 7X6

AND TO:

INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONER/ONTARIO
Suite 1700
80 Bloor Street West
Toronto, Ontario
M5S 2V1

William S. Challis, Esq.
(416) 326-3333

Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario

				APPLICATION

1.	THE APPLICATION makes application for:

(a)	An order in the nature of prohibition preventing Chief Julian 
Fantino and the London Police Board, Chief James C. Adkin and the Windsor 
Police Services Board, Chief Murray K. McMaster and the Sarnia Police 
Services Board from acting on the decision of the Information and Privacy 
Commissioner dated October 18, 1995;

(b)	An order in the nature of mandamus directing Chief Julian Fantino 
and the London Police Board, Chief James C. Adkin and the Windsor Police 
Services Board, Chief Murray K. McMaster and the Sarnia Police Services 
Board to reply to all requests made by Robert Riley on his own behalf or 
on behalf of any other persons which were outstanding as of October 18, 1995;

(c)	An order in the nature of certiorari quashing the decision of Tom 
Wright, Information and Privacy Commissioner for Ontario dated October 
18, 1995;

(d)	An order in the nature of certiorari quashing the said decision 
of the Information and Privacy Commissioner in which he imposed a five 
transaction limit on the number of requests by the Appellant and/or 
appeals that institutions under the Municipal or Provincial Acts are 
collectively required to process at any one point in time;

(e)	An order in the nature of certiorari quashing the said decision 
of the Information and Privacy Commissioner in which he limited to one 
the number of requests and/or appeals by the Applicant that any 
individual institution is required to process at any one time, to a 
maximum of 4 requests and/or appeals in the year;

(f)	An order in the nature of certiorari quashing the said decision 
of the Information and Privacy Commissioner in which he required the 
Applicant to submit any requests to be made to an institution for prior 
approval by the Information and Privacy Commissioner;

(g)	An order in the nature of certiorari quashing the said decision 
of the Information and Privacy Commissioner in which he ordered that his 
order shall continue in effect from year to year unless the Applicant 
applies to vary the same at the conclusion of one year and 60 days from 
October 18, 1995;

(h)	An order extending the time for commencing the within application 
for judicial review, if necessary;

(i)	Costs of this application on a solicitor and client basis; and

(j)	Such further and other relief as to this Honourable Court may 
seem just.

2.	THE GROUNDS FOR THE APPLICATION ARE:

(a)	The Information and Privacy Commissioner exceeded the 
jurisdiction conferred upon him in making his order against the Applicant 
dated October 18, 1995;

(b)	The Order of the Information and Privacy Commissioner denied the 
Applicant natural justice;

(c)	Section 5 of the Judicial Review Procedures Act, R.S.O. 1990, 
c.J.1; and

(d)	Such further and other grounds as counsel may advise and to this 
Honourable Court may seem just.

	THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE WILL BE USED AT THE HEARING OF 
THE APPLICATION:

(a)	The Affidavit of Susan Gagnon sworn December 23, 1994;

(b)	The Affidavit of John Freeman sworn December 29, 1994;

(c)	The Affidavit of Kevin Heslop sworn December 29, 1994;

(d)	The Affidavit of Renald Desjardins sworn December 29, 1994;

(e)	The Affidavit of Kenneth Anderson sworn January 30, 1995;

(f)	The Supplementary Affidavit of Susan Gagnon sworn June 29, 1995; and

(g)	Such further and other evidence as counsel may advise and this 
Honourable Court may permit.

	DATED at Toronto, this 22nd day of January, 1996.

					ROBERT RILEY
					85 Dunn Avenue
					Suite 2
					Toronto, Ontario
					M6K 2R8

					(416) 588-4676
					Applicant

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
      			 Dr. Robert Riley
       		Planet Communications and Computing Facility	
       			85 Dunn Avenue, Suite #2
       		Toronto, Ontario, Canada  M6K 2R8
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Direct all complaints to: Chief Julian Fantino, PCCF Complaints 
Adjudicator, c/o London Police Service, P.O.Box 3415, London, Ontario,
Canada N6A 4K9.  Tel. 519-661-5670 or Fax. 519-645-1908

From [email-masked] Thu Sep 19 08:01:50 1996
Xref: elastic can.general:59277 earth.general:9105 ont.general:55462 tor.general:56594
Path: elastic!lethe!gts!whome!infoshare!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.achilles.net!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!ki.net!news.vrx.net!news.vrx.net!not-for-mail
From: [email-masked] (MrClean)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,tor.general,torfree.general,alt.canadian.beaver,alt.fan-mrclean,earth.general
Subject: FWD from the net_scandal archives: Father Cunha - The Crook of Santa Cruz (was Re: Forgive me, for I have sinned.  (Again))
Date: 18 Sep 1996 03:31:10 -0400
Organization: NET.SCANDAL
Lines: 170
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ns1.vrx.net
Keywords: this was all the fuss in Aug '94

In article <[email-masked]>,
Minions reported that:
>: this ex-communicated pope last conjured up his unique vehicle
>
>Another father Cunha ... The shamefull harvest of souls.

=======================
FYI - to this day no one has claimed authorship of the following
"anonymous" article from August of '94. As far as our sources are 
concerned, Father Cunha, The Long Arm of God is still very active
in his "position" as chief at The Santa Cruz Catholic Church. 

    <<<<<FORWARDED from the [email-masked] archives>>>>>

subscribe to the list by sending the word SUBSCRIBE in the body of an
email message addressed to [email-masked]

--------------------------forward: 15 Aug 1994--------------------
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Aug 1994 06:18:42 -0000
From: [email-masked] (Anonymous)
Organization: Parkdale Community Server-Toronto
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Father Cunha, The Long Arm of God
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: tor.general
Lines: 131

Cunha, The Long Arm of God

Parkdale Community BBS lost Internet  access because Father Cunha and his
friends arranged it. Seems like Joe Baptista the faxing nightmare has faxed
the story by my writing to everyone on his long fax list.  MPP's, MP's,
newspapers and everyone. And it also seems like these people (one or many or
just a few) came down on who ever it is that decides things in the UUNET.

I do not take back anything that I wrote even even though some of it was
wrong in details. I do not think that anonymous psoting is cowardly Mr
Santo's. If Cunha and his cronies can arrange something like this just think
what they can do to someone who lives next door to them.

Father Cunha should sweat profusely.   Corruption and graft in the Portugeuse
community cannot be tolerated. The police, politicians, press and english
people look the other way. As long as Cunha can control his votes and his
people. Liberation is sometimes messy but always succeeds. The people cannot
be controlled like sheep forever. Those used to dictatorship grow old and
weak. The young will not be held down forever by a Nazi like Cunha.

We live and learn. Here is my original story for you all to choke on again.
All I hope is that it ends with Cunha defrocked, in jail and then taken care
of for things men of God should never be allowed to get away with.

Choke on it Liberal Party.

Choke on it Mario Silva.

Choke on it Father.

Choke on it.

Father Cunha - The Crook of Santa Cruz

The Santa Cruz Catholic Church (416-533-8425) at 142 Argyle Street in Toronto,
Canada has this priest named Father Cunha. The good father used to be at the
big cathedral on Portugal Square off of Bathurst Street here in TO.

Till they kicked his ass out of there. They being the Portugese faithful 
- a group who are really at the centre of this dirty story here.

Father Cunha started his spree at the cathedral. Amassing land and buying
properties up and down Bathurst allegedly from his priests income. Only
problem is his income was not very much and the faithful of this church were
VERY generous when it came to collection times when the plate was passed
around. In fact Father Cunha advised the faithful NOT to put change on the
many passing plates as it  "Disturbed" and "interupted" his sermon. So the
bills amassed.

When socials happened - extremely successful ones - there never seemed to be
profits at the other end. Except when after Father Cunha left when - LO AND
BEHOLD - in one year they made $70,000 CDN from these previously
break even events.

Well the good parishoners got fed up when news of Father Cunha's land
acquistions/speculations made the rounds. They demanded to see the books and
- curiously enough - everything appeared to be in order. Until the people
remembered all those passed plates for the roof of the church, for new this
or that and repairs ... all of which never happened.

Father Cunha was re-assigned to Santa Cruz. Where the good times really began
to roll for our scum-bag cleric. And there? So many stories ... all
independantly verified by reputable people in the Portugeuse community (all
of whom want to remain as anonymous as I do).

Where to begin?

How about the Old folks home on Dundas near Dovercourt. The big one with the
hugh garage doors. Well Father Cunha and his cronies garnered mega provincial
and fed-bucks to see that this retirement residence for Portugeuse-Canadians
was built. And then turned around and later claimed that there were not
enough old people to live in the place. They are currently renting units out
from $900 to $1,100 CDN per vacant apartment. Shoddy, profit-maximizing,
below standard construction methods included. Utilities extra.

And that ain't all. Father Cunha has been cashing the cheques of numerous
retired persons there and returning two or three hundred dollars to them
(from multiple pensions!) to live on. The families of these people have
threatened legal action. Which I'm sure Father Cunha and his dirt bags have
hushed up with $$$s the only liturgy the son-of-a-bitch seems to understand.

The next low-life activity of our favorite Catholic Priest is the Scam of the
amazing Travelling Sacred Statue. For religious festivals the world around
the people who originally lived in the Azores (Sam Miguel) use sacred statues
of their Saints in processions. One particularly sacred object is a statue
from San Miguel which is in demand world wide among Portugeuse from the
Azores.

Well for one festival at Santa Cruz here in Toronto Father Cunha and three
businessmen arranged to have the statue shipped, by ship, here to their
church in Toronto. Well on sailing day a big storm prevented the ship from
going.

A week later the same thing happened. An Azores priest went down to the ship.
He had a vision. He instructed the dock workers to remove the Saint Statue
from the ship and to open it. Out tumbled enough drugs to send the three
business guys to jail. I guess not enough to put father Cunha away. He
claimed, continues to claim and will continue to claim total innocence.

Next in the partial non-rap-sheet of Father Cunha - The Crook of Santa Cruz
is the little Canada Day picnic that wasn't. A good idea it sounded. Get all
sorts of proud businesses to donate food, money and everything for a great
picnic in the country. Drive out there everybody and have a good ti-  WHAT!
We get there and NOTHING??? No food, no music, no nothing? Where did all the
money and all the goods and everything go? Father Cunha says (with a shrug
and a meaningful look) that he doesn't know. That we live and learn.

The last and most seemingly popular sport of our Catholic brother is fucking,
having children (who they openly support sending to Portugal for vacatiTOPand
private schools) and everybody looking the other way including the new reform
minded Pope. I suppose that's to be expected in the new Church. Rumous of the
abuse of his Alter Boys may NOT be so acceptable although the priests 
seem to get away with that almost without problems.

Father Cunha, the story no-one knows. Father Cunha -the slime that crawled
out from somewhere to blight a community. Father Cunha - when will these
fucking lazy assed journalists here drag the fucker out, show him for 
what he is and earn their over-paid livings? Well it's been twenty or 
more years of inactivity on their parts. And a GREAT deal of activity on 
Father Cunha's part. So twenty years more is not unreasonable to expect.

Father Cunha ... watch  Community Cable Ten here in Parkdale for a new show
starring Father Cunha. Seems like we never get enough of this guy ... so now
we're gonna get the pious fucking criminal on TV. And pay out of our pockets
for it.

We live and learn.

 _____________end of forwarded article__________________________________

FYI
To this day, no one has claimed ownership of the above "Anonymous" article
posted via the shortlived but legendary pcs.org.

-- 
"as the veil of democracy starts to fade"               [email-masked]