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22 January 2010. Updated 3.
21 January 2010. Updated 2.
19 January 2010. Updated.
16 January 2010
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:59:28 +0100
Subject: Master thesis on Wikileaks, cyberactivism and social media
From: Patricia Camilien <patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org>
To: cryptome[at]earthlink.net
Dear Mr Young,
My name is Patricia Camilien. I am a student at the Institut d'Etudes Politiques de Paris (Sciences Po). I am currently working on my master thesis whose temporary title is "Cybermilitantism and social media: the Wikileaks case". As the founder of a similar website, I would like to ask you some questions about the Wikileaks project and I'd appreciate it very much if you could find some time to answer them.
As I'm living in Paris, I think our best options would be the phone or the web. I am quite partial to the web but the medium is up to you. I'll naturally be happy to provide you with any additional information you might need and look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best regards,
Patricia Camilien
Dear Ms. Camilien,
It will be a pleasure to discuss cybermilitantism with you. My preference is to use email, not telephone, if you please.
Most interesting topic for a thesis.
Best regards,
John
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:23:38 +0100
Subject: Re: Master thesis on Wikileaks, cyberactivism and social media
From: Patricia Camilien <patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org>
To: John Young <jya[at]pipeline.com>
Dear Mr Young,
Thank you for your quick answer. As you already chose your favorite medium, I thought I might as well send you some quick questions about Cryptome.org as a way to start the conversation:
* Cryptome.org has been putting censored and otherwise restricted documents online since 1996, what can you tell me about the website and the philosophy behind it?
* What type of information does one find on Cryptome.org? How does it get there?
* How does it compare to Wikileaks.org?
* You've been invited on the WL board but declined to join, why?
* How do you see Cryptome.org's future?
As you can see, these are very basic questions intended to help me know a little bit more about you and your project. I shall have questions about cybermilitantism in our subsequent exchanges but would rather now you speak freely about the issue.
Thank you for participating in my research.
Best regards,
P.
Dear Ms. Camilien,
Your questions are quite superficial and do not deserve thoughtful answers.
For us to have fruitful discussion you must do more preparation.
* Cryptome.org has been putting censored and otherwise restricted documents online since 1996, what can you tell me about the website and the philosophy behind it?
Please read the Cryptome website.
* What type of information does one find on Cryptome.org? How does it get there?
Please read the website.
* How does it compare to Wikileaks.org?
Please read the website.
* You've been invited on the WL board but declined to join, why?
Please read the website. Search Google for "wikileaks-leak.htm" and "wikileaks-leak2.htm."
* How do you see Cryptome.org's future?
This question is formulaic and vapid.
* As you can see, these are very basic questions intended to help me know a little bit more about you and your project. I shall have questions about cybermilitantism in our subsequent exchanges but would rather now you speak freely about the issue.
These simplistic comments indicate that you are not yet prepared for a serious discussion about Cryptome, Wikileaks or cybermilitantism.
* Thank you for participating in my research.
Please write again after you have prepared properly. Prepare a critique of cybermilitantism and send it for review.
John Young
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: Re: Master thesis on Wikileaks, cyberactivism and social media
From: Patricia Camilien <patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org>
To: John Young <jya[at]pipeline.com>
Dear Mr Young,
My apologies. You are right, my questions ere pretty formulaic and you deserved better for accepting to help me so quickly. Right now, I'm dealing with the aftermath in Haiti - I'm Haitian and abroad - and I'm afraid I'm not very focused right now.
I tried to contact you and some other prospective interviewees today as a way to force myself to think about something else and I wasn't expected an answer this quick. It is no reset an excuse of course but I guess this means I should take my time before I thrust myself back into my research.
Please accept my apologies again. I promise that the next time I contact you, I'll try to make it worth your while.
Best regards,
Patricia Camilien
Dear Ms. Camilien,
Suggested readings prior to taking on the far too glib topicality of Cryptome, Wikileaks and cybermilitantism:
National Security Archive:
Electronic Freedom Foundation:
Federation of American Scientists and Secrecy News:
http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/
The Memory Hole:
And many similar initiatives in other countries.
Then, properly armored against misbehavior, ponder risk:
Tim May's "Cyphernomicon:"
http://www.cypherpunks.to/faq/cyphernomicron/cyphernomicon.html
Jim Bell's "Assassination Politics:"
Jim Bell's Trial and Conviction Files:
And many of the other hundreds of challenging and highly informative web sites. Be cautious about those cited in the news too readily for they are rightly suspected of overmuch self-promotion -- pity those condemned to fund-raising treadmills.
Regards,
John Young
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:32:51 +0100
Subject: Re: Master thesis on Wikileaks, cyberactivism and social media
From: Patricia Camilien <patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org>
To: John Young <jya[at]pipeline.com>
Dear Mr Young,
I took some time to read your first response again and realized that there might have been some misunderstanding about what I’m hoping to get from you: namely the cybermilitant experience and how you see your work in relations to others in the same field. Therefore, I’m afraid I won’t be producing any essay and/or critique about cybermilitantism any time soon. As a student of international relations, I’m mostly interested in the transnational, post-national and global aspect of it all and while my first questions were simplistic – and quite frankly ill-formulated – they still pertained to what type of information I’m hoping to get from you. As for the websites you suggested, I’m already familiar with most of them and have contacted them around the same time I contacted you and they’ve been just as eager to help. However, just the fact that you thought about mentioning them is already very helpful as it can help in assessing the level of interconnectivity and awareness in the (cyber)movement for transparency.
I’ll have to disagree with you on one point though; I’ve been working on this subject for three months now, so while I might not be the most knowledgeable about it, I think I know enough to engage a discussion about it. I also think it might be best to let you know a little bit more about what my research which, because of time limitations, will focus on the Trafigura affair*, is about. Quite briefly, I intend to, by using the so-called affair, explore the different aspects of the emergence and development of active political participation online: 1) by studying the very structure of the Internet and its potentials so to determine its role in the appearance of this type of participation, 2) by taking into account the type of actors involved from the agenda setting to the results 3) by studying the many tools and means they used 4) by identifying their rationalities whether they be political, economical, social or plural, 5) by reframing the widely discussed role of the individual in international relations.
My admiration for Wikileaks aside, my decision to work on cybermilitantism comes from my dissatisfaction with the way recent studies of social movements tend to neglect the societal dimension of activists and the fact that activist organizations are not simply transnational pressure groups but rather political actors in their own right. Of course, I might be wrong - I can only hope my research will be conclusive enough – but I think that such concepts as “world civic politics” and the “global civil society” can only be well assessed if one decides to broaden its understanding of politics and see the current trend toward its “de-nationalization”. Therefore, I place my subject in the much broader discussion of the Internet as a (new) global public space and the impact this might have on international politics and international relations as a whole. And this is precisely why the Trafigura affair presented such an appeal to me because it involves actors at the different levels (sub, inter and transnational, as well as global and individual). As you can see, cybermilitantism here is a mean to an end. What I am mostly interested in is how the online multitude is mobilized and how effective such mobilization can be in the real world. Key concepts would be: the rise of the civic Internet, the innovative aspects of online participation, the links between globalization and wikipolitics, democratic deficit, deliberative polling, deliberative democracy and citizen 2.0, open source government, the “multitude”, swarm and collective intelligence, the mutualization of information ….
I do not know Cryptome well enough and I really wish to know more but I’m more interested in the personal aspect of it. That is not to say that I’m not interested in its philosophy and its goal but rather that I’m interested to learn about how its founder and contributors see it, why they did set it up and what they expect from it. And this is why the email format is so difficult a medium for such a thing as the necessary delay means the information I’ll get risk being less “personal”.
I guess in a way, you still got an essay, even though it’s not the one you asked for. This allows me, I hope, to ask you a favor in return: to talk freely about Cryptome.org while using my short essay as a guideline. I think that, this way, our exchange will be way more meaningful than if we keep the specific question-specific answer format. You could start at the beginning, as in when the idea of Cryptome first occurred to you, what triggered it and why you chose this specific medium and not another one. I, for one, am really interested in knowing why (and how) an individual, an architect no less, would one day decide to build something so arguably foreign to his normal activities and how he made his project interesting enough to have others contribute/be moved by it.
PC
PS: I didn't expect my email to end up posted on Cryptome.org - foolish of me I know, seeing how it's a leaking website - but your posting it has brought me some interesting emails from people who might be very beneficial to my research so I wanted to thank you for that, while hoping you'll keep updating the thread on your website.
PPS: For a quick introduction to the Trafigura affair, read "How the Trafigura story came to be told", The Guardian, Oct. 16, 2009.
Dear Ms. Camilien,
Thank you for obnoxious comments. Despite our attempt to answer "earnest" inquiries about Cryptome's origins that the best source is reading the site itself, here is an example of dismissable glibness that usually comes out:
radar-smear.htm
You may be an exception, but your line of questioning is not encouraging -- a focus on the personal is fatuous social media paparizzism:
I do not know Cryptome well enough and I really wish to know more but I’m more interested in the personal aspect of it. That is not to say that I’m not interested in its philosophy and its goal but rather that I’m interested to learn about how its founder and contributors see it, why they did set it up and what they expect from it.
To the extent Cryptome is successful you will not be able to grasp it with a fleeting glance at its operators' evansescent notoriety, and worse, personal archeological dig.
To think you can is to be another typical social-media-enslaved babbling fool, say, like Radar's John Cook, though costumed academically.
Still, the conversation is becoming attractively more revolting, so please continue with your condescending insults.
Best regards,
John Young
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:47:22 -0500
Subject: Your thread - CyberMilitarism
From: Cdn Intel <humintcanada[at]gmail.com>
To: jya[at]pipeline.com
John:
Been following your site for years - no particular reason. The information doesn't actually improve my life but offers some degree of entertainment. Better than the crap on the telly.
But question for you - why are you being a jackass with the young lady who asked some simple questions. OK - maybe she should have spent some time reviewing the site to decipher your "manifesto" -- but maybe, just maybe, it does lack something of a mission - buried in the orgy of leaks built up over a decade plus from the sheer boredom you may have with architecture.
I don't know -- personally, I think you are acting like a senile, old angry man in his waning years. You sound pathetically angry and sarcastic. LOOK - get over yourself. You've got a simple site with aggregated links of stuff that pisses off some people. BIG DEAL. You're not THAT important and when you pass on, I guess, others will do what you've done. But life goes on...
Give the lady a break and maybe back off on the old whiskey. You old fart - maybe some exercise would do you good.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:49:59 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Your thread - CyberMilitarism
From: Cdn Intel <humintcanada[at]gmail.com>
To: patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org
Cc: jya[at]pipeline.com
FYI on an email thread over this - John is being a jerk. I'd move on - he isn't that important. He thinks he is. I hate old farts who feel the world owes them something or feel they need to rain on the parade of young, eager minds who are anxious to learn more.
Patricia - you're waiting your time. John is having a lousy week with life.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cdn Intel <humintcanada[at]gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:47 AM
Subject: Your thread - CyberMilitarism
To: jya[at]pipeline.com
[Preceding message.]
Dear Cdn Intel,
Ad hominem personal attacks indicate you do not understand Cryptome or the purpose for encouraging Ms. Camilien to dig deeper into glib topicality with its mindless focus on vain celebrity.
Your fat mouth sounds like a perfect consumer of Ms. Camilien's misinformed superficiality posing as serious scholarship. Talking empty heads rule the social media and are irresistable to vacuous aping.
Addled as her by excessive popcorn entertainment, you are most welcome to continue sending personal insults rather than substantive critique and useful information.
Got any hot documents instead of the hots?
Regards,
John Young
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:49:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Fwd: Your thread - CyberMilitarism
From: Cdn Intel <humintcanada[at]gmail.com>
To: John Young <jya[at]pipeline.com>
Cc: patricia.camilien[at]sciences-po.org
Dear John:
Are you honestly this hopeless? Do you love hearing yourself with the Roget next to you? Miss your days in academia? It is clear that you have some pent up anger since you've made the assumption that the poor lady is a by-product of the modern popcorn lifestyle.
I do have a fat mouth and glad you've posted my additions to the site (got my 15 seconds of fame - thx!) because you've clearly shown you're a pathetic excuse for a living soul. I don't understand Cryptome? Why should I "try" to understand Cryptome? As I said, your role in all of this is hardly IMPORTANT.
And closing like a cheap whore takes the cake. What makes you think the intelligence community would like to share any information with you. Do trust this thread will add value to your voluminous DVD package of aggregated files since 1996!
Get a life John - you need one. This is the last call on this little episode of fun - glad I've wasted a bit of your time in your "tireless" campaign to "free" information.
Patricia -- a lesson to you. Don't trust anyone regardless of their "perceived value" in fighting the good fight.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:57 AM, John Young <jya[at]pipeline.com> wrote:
Dear Cdn Intel,
Cryptome aspires to be a library not a social media mosh pit, or worse, a blog. Most of its readers use its archive not the daily postings.
It hosts documents for study and informed action to offset ineffective opinionating. Most of its documents are not controversial, attention-mongering leaks, breaking news, ideology peddling, product spin, fund-raising, and to the extent possible, not intended as reputation flogging for readers and the site operator -- the most pervasive addiction of the Internet.
The last is hard to avoid with the incessant Internet prowling for somebody to tout or smear or argue with instead of the hard work of research, learning and keeping your mouth shut and mind open.
As with others who have inquired about Cryptome, Ms. Camilien is encouraged to use it as a resource, and hopefully in return to provide material for publication, not pointlessly suck-up to, bait and grotesque its operator -- the favorite pasttime of lazy dimwits eyeing themselves performing to a mirror.
This is not to say lazy dimwits do not have a right to their lifestyle -- those who have nothing better to do are lucky to have found a hole to hide in along with fellow secret keepers besotted with mirror imaging.
Mosh on elsewhere, best, send hard to get documents.
Regards,
John Young